General chatter - Aw Geeezz Girl! ~ Did You Flush?




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EZMONEY
03-13-2007, 11:11 PM
I just finished taking my trash and recycles out. I was just wondering what the rest of you do about recycling. My teen years were the late 60's early 70's and I remember the focus we had on ecology then. I even had a green American flag sticker on the back of my Mustang window.

I remember the slogan YELLOW is MELLOW if it's BROWN flush it DOWN.

Angie and I save all soda and water bottles for our church school. They use the money for supplies for our youth.

During the week we separate our cans/bottles/plastic for one container and all of our newspapers (I take 3) for another container. Then we smash all of our cardboard and set all these out with the trash for recycle. We also have green waste containers here.

We take all of our batteries, paints and oils to the reclaim center. We pick up free mulch and compost for our yard at the recycle plant.

We try to save as much water as we can. In fact nephew Ron tries to single handily SAVE THE WORLD of all it's water shortage by not showering!

WHAT DO YOU DO TO SAVE THE WORLD?


cinderly
03-13-2007, 11:22 PM
You mean aside from working in the environmental clean-up industry while studying to be a teacher? ;)

I recycle, I buy organic produce from an independent farm's co-op, I drive an old, beat-up car (although the gas mileage is starting to trend toward iffy territory). I buy in bulk, when I can, to reduce packaging. I wear my clothes until they're threadbare and Freecycle those I shrink out of. I shop at thrift stores instead of big boxes, when I can. I recycle my electronics. :)

Always, there's more to do, but I'm focused on doing what I can instead of freaking out about what I'm NOT doing. (And I'm less of a hippie than I sound.)

My next big eco-challenge will be to ditch my car and rely solely on public/bicycle transportation. I'm not there, yet, but it's coming.

Barring that, I want a greasecar. (I also want a strawbale house or an Earthship, but the Other Human nixed those ideas, so greasecar it is.)

lizziness
03-14-2007, 12:16 AM
We recycle everything, but it's hard not to when it's all laid right out for us at our apartment complex. Instead of getting rid of any of our electronics and computers, hubby fixes them up and gives them to friends and family that need them. I take the bus to work every day and never even bothered to get a driver's license. I carpool home most days or take the bus.

I really think living in Eugene,OR it's hard NOT to be environmentally conscientious. It's practically done for you already.


Spinymouse
03-14-2007, 12:45 AM
Oh MAN yes, this is really a dear subject to me.
I try not to waste anything - not just recycling paper but using it if it doesn't need to be shredded - for lists, for personal use printing (use the other side) -
Instead of the "paper or plastic" question, I alternate my requests at the store, and as a result, I have a supply of garbage bags. Put the plastic one inside the paper one, and put my trash in it instead of buying trash bags. Yes, Cinderly, I wear my clothes forever too! And my car gets an avg of 40 mpg (city and hwy, including sometimes using the AC) And I have a real ceramic bowl for food at work so I don't have to use disposable. I'm sure there are other examples, but it's so automatic I don't even think about it much. I'm sure I screw up sometimes though, or could do better....I should bring my own containers for doggy bags at restaurants. And I'm sure there are about 92374 other examples. But I'm sleepy.....

shrinkingchica
03-14-2007, 12:45 AM
I recycle, shut off all lights when not in a room, don't turn on lights during day and raise shades on windows. When I am not sharing a bathroom I will let my yellow mellow 2x if possible. I'm not getting into details. ;) :o I also try and buy organic produce.
Eh, I'm not saving the world, but it is some type of effort. I would go solar panel and buy a hybrid if I could afford it. Sometimes being green is expensive (organic produce a prime example).

I once saw this little news story on the BBC that featured this reallly green Japanese family. They even had a toilet that had a sink and faucet on the top of it and when the toilet flushed the faucet would spout out water so you could wash you hands in the water that would then fill up the toilet again. I am not totally convinced of the hygiene there though.

tikanique
03-14-2007, 10:50 AM
Geez, I feel like a fat lazy wasteful American! My only contribution is reading the news online instead of buying and then tossing newspapers and that's moreso because I'm too cheap to buy the paper. Public transportation in Detroit / Metro Detroit is horrible (city planners felt it would be better to have everyone buy a car to boost economy instead of making it easier for people to get to work) so I drive every day.

Hmmmm, I need to make more of a commitment to not being wasteful.

Tiki

royalsfan1
03-14-2007, 11:17 AM
Moving to Tennesse was like moving back in time when in comes to environmental consciousness....go figure...the state from which Al Gore came. Anyway, nothing is made easy around here. At home (in KC) recycling was required...here, it's a JOB. I have to keep containers in the garage and then when they're full I have to drive across town to deliver them to a recycle trailer. And that's new! Before that we COULDN'T recycle. Still, I can't get used to the garbage services not doing it for us. Also, there is no cohesive public transportation here in the suburbs and no parking station closer in. It makes no sense. I do drive a gas friendly (if it exists) car but with 4 kids a hybrid just isn't feasible. Lights stay off...toilets flush only when necessary....clothes dry on the line, mostly....dishwasher runs ONLY when LOADED to the hilt and no heated dry....clothes get worn then used as cleaning cloths if they're too bad to donate....those are a few of the things I do.

Before I moved here I felt I was much "greener" (even my job was green!) and I'm sad about who I've become in that regard.

Mummy_Tummy
03-14-2007, 11:25 AM
We recycle everything which is a pain because we don't have curb side pick up for glass so have to save and then transport it. Not too horrible though as the bins are in the grocery store parking lot so just have to remember to actually get the recyclables into the car before we leave.

Speaking of cars, we probably only drive about once or twice a week, on average and those are short trips. I walk just about every where I go or take the train (sort of draw the line at the insanity that is the bus service around here - seriously the driving is so maniacal I have literally gotten off the bus and vomited into a near-by trash can!) My husband commutes by train every day.

I take advantage of those charity bags that come along and will donate things like clothes, shoes, eye glasses, toys, books and whatnot.

I reuse my grocery bags. I get odd looks sometimes when I plop them up on the counter but a few times, people have said "way to go". I want to actually start collecting a stock of "bags for life" so I don't have to use anything else. If you don't want to reuse your plastic grocery bags then at least recycle them.

I try to wash my dishes by hand instead of running the dishwasher and I try to hang most of my laundry to dry instead of using the dryer.

I unplug all appliances that are not in use because even if it is switched off, it still uses power.

We have replaced all our bulbs with energy-efficient ones. They're pricier so it took us a few months to get them all changed over but it's done now.

I compost kitchen and garden waste like veggie and fruit left-overs and peelings, coffee grounds, egg shells, tea bags, grass and plant clippings and what-not. My big mistake was setting the composter up at the back of the garden so often times my husband will (rightfully) complain about the big bowl of decomposing veggies I've got stashed under the sink waiting to go out!

I buy Fair Trade items when they are available (like mostly mangoes, bananas and coffee at the moment as I'm petitioning our local grocery to stock Fair Trade sugar and tea). This isn't necassarily eco-warrioring but it is my attempt to be a good global citizen.:hug:

I'm all for saving water by turning it off while brushing teeth and doing dishes and stuff but I have to draw the line at leaving any sort of waste in the toilet, whatever the color.:D I want hubby to install a water butt (that makes me giggle) in the garden for outdoor use.

Turn down your washing machine by just a degree or two and that will also make a big difference, too and wash on the shorter cycles.

royalsfan1
03-14-2007, 11:26 AM
I thought of a couple more...because these are things ANYONE can do no matter where you live...

I no longer buy books..but strictly use the library...I have found that even if they don't have it (we live in a small town) they will order it for me.

I have requested all bills to be sent to me electronically rather than paper bills in the mail.

When I get junk mail that have the return envelopes (for whatever they're wanting you to apply for or buy) I use those envelope....They work fine when the crap is covered up with a big label! haha

royalsfan1
03-14-2007, 11:32 AM
I would LOVE to compost! Great idea. I'm just not sure how to begin. I'm going to check into compost bins right now!

Also, I try and buy mainly from local farmers when produce is in season (unless it's something I grow myself like herbs, tomatoes, and some peppers). We also use the energy efficient flourescent bulbs, reuse grocery bags, shower rather than bathe, etc...

Great thread! Keep the ideas coming. I find this very encouraging!

alinnell
03-14-2007, 01:14 PM
At my old house we did some composting--but mostly just the yard clippings. The recycling wasn't as extensive as it is at my new house.

Now we recycle just about everything.

We have 3 "garbage" cans: 1 for garbage (that rarely even gets half full), 1 for green waste (yard clippings, etc.) and 1 for recycling that always gets heaping full.

I use some cloth bags for grocery shopping, otherwise I recycle the bags.

cinderly
03-14-2007, 01:44 PM
Tricia, I agree that it's a pain to haul the recycling cross town, but I can't imagine the guilt I'd feel at not doing so. :)

For those of us who are non-composters, we've had incredible response on both Freecycle and Craigslist for lawn clippings and bagged leaves. Folks who go to the trouble, even here, are thrilled to come and get the leaves, particularly, to use as mulch.

Along a similar line as the library books, I've taken to selling off a bunch of old books and CDs to a local used books shop. They'll give me either cash or in-store credit AND help me declutter without clogging the landfill. Anything they won't take goes into the Bookcrossing box.

I've thought about making reusable grocery sacks, but haven't researched how they do with the self-checkout stands. (Anyone know?) In the meantime, we'll keep recycling the plastic ones.

Another minor change we made was switching our video rental practices. Instead of driving to the store -- or more than one if the movie we were after was unavailable, we're doing the Netflix thing. Beyond eliminating the car trip (mail's going to come, anyway), I'm not sure how green this is. :)

There's a campaign on the radio, right now: "Alaska Youth for Environmental Action invite you to take the 3-2-1 efficiency pledge!" :) The idea is that you replace 3 incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescents, turn your thermostat down 2 degrees, and unplug 1 appliance when it's not in use.

What I like about this pledge is that it's based on simple, painless steps each of us can take to better our world. What I don't like about it: I don't WANT to set my thermostat to 66 degrees! BRRRRRR!

Another fairly easy thing you can do (although not ultra cheap) is replace your existing thermostat(s) with the programmable kind, if your heating/cooling system supports it. Greener AND saves you money (vs leaving the thermostat set to the same temp all day & night) -- and we love ours, since we no longer come home to a chilly house in the evenings. :)

I'll think about this a bit more as I'm avoiding work, today. :)

EZMONEY
03-14-2007, 08:22 PM
WOW! You gals are awesome! :carrot: As if I didn't already know!

I have picked up a few tips for sure. One thing I do with those envelopes ROYALSFAN1 ~ is that I take everything out of the original envelope and put all of it, envelope included, back into the pre-paid envelope they send ~ that way they can have MY junk mail back and they can recycle their own junk into their area of the world. It also helps to keep jobs for my two friends that are postal carriers ;)

I swing from the other side of the plate on politics and I don't believe in all the hysteria surrounding :flame: :hot: global warming :hot: :flame: but I will support Al's next movie:

3 FAT CHICK'S SAVE THE WORLD ~ 1 DEGREE AT A TIME :flow1:

cinderly
03-14-2007, 08:44 PM
Gary, you may not believe the hysteria, but I know that in Anchorage, it's been topping 85 with 85% humidity in August in recent years.

When I was a kid, we were begging my mom to let us play in the water at 50 degrees. She made us hold out until 60, since it rarely got above 70. (Her reasoning.) That was in the mid-1980s, so not SO long ago.

I'm just saying.

Your friend,

the Hippie Liberal :D (although my boss calls me a less family-friendly version of same.)

EZMONEY
03-14-2007, 08:53 PM
CINDERLY ~ How did I know you were going to be the first to respond back to me! ;) I seriously love some of your ideas, even if we see things differently! Heck I could even go with the greasecar...if I got :hungry: hungry on the long drives i could pull over and fry up some :chicken: chicken!

You are a good friend! :hug:

shrinkingchica
03-14-2007, 08:54 PM
I swing from the other side of the plate on politics and I don't believe in all the hysteria surrounding :flame: :hot: global warming :hot: :flame:


Me too. But, I do think that there are some things that we all can do to stop being completely wasteful beings.

Also, to Gary and everyone else: the next Ice Age is about 5,000 yrs away and we should expect a major tsunami to hit the East Coast of the US and all of Europe (emanating from the plates underneath the Canary Islands) within the next 50 to 5,000 years. Approximately.
And I do not kid. I have read all of these articles off of the BCC or CNN websites over the past year or so.

cinderly
03-14-2007, 09:01 PM
CINDERLY ~ How did I know you were going to be the first to respond back to me! ;) I seriously love some of your ideas, even if we see things differently! Heck I could even go with the greasecar...if I got :hungry: hungry on the long drives i could pull over and fry up some :chicken: chicken!

You are a good friend! :hug:

Thanks, man. (I'm SOOO plotzing at work, today.)

I'm actually glad everyone doesn't see things exactly my way -- makes life much richer and allows me to practice my communication skills.

Also, mmmm, fried things. /Homer J.

Another benefit on the greasecar: many restaurants have to pay to dispose of their grease, so they will generally let the grease go for FREE. (Have to have a diesel to convert, first, which is what's stopping me. The folks I've met who have them absolutely love them.)

EZMONEY
03-14-2007, 09:03 PM
Me too. But, I do think that there are some things that we all can do to stop being completely wasteful beings.

I agree completely!

Also, to Gary and everyone else: the next Ice Age is about 5,000 yrs away and we should expect a major tsunami to hit the East Coast of the US and all of Europe (emanating from the plates underneath the Canary Islands) within the next 50 to 5,000 years. Approximately.
And I do not kid. I have read all of these articles off of the BCC or CNN websites over the past year or so.

It was easier when I was a kid. All we were afraid of was the Russians and martians! Oh and (as Chris Rock says) dad's :wizard: magic belt, the one that could whip anyone's butt!

EZMONEY
03-14-2007, 09:08 PM
Thanks, man. (I'm SOOO plotzing at work, today.)

I'm actually glad everyone doesn't see things exactly my way -- makes life much richer and allows me to practice my communication skills.

Also, mmmm, fried things. /Homer J.

Another benefit on the greasecar: many restaurants have to pay to dispose of their grease, so they will generally let the grease go for FREE. (Have to have a diesel to convert, first, which is what's stopping me. The folks I've met who have them absolutely love them.)

Mature people (not sure where that leaves me ;) ) can agree to dis-agree. Seriously though, do you really think EXXON/MOBIL and TEXACO/CHEVRON will allow us all the option of grease cars?

cinderly
03-14-2007, 09:17 PM
Mature people (not sure where that leaves me ;) ) can agree to dis-agree. Seriously though, do you really think EXXON/MOBIL and TEXACO/CHEVRON will allow us all the option of grease cars?

Well, since EXXON is still a dirty word, here, I'm not too worried about them. (BP and ConocoPhillips are the big players, here.) I'm in kind of an odd spot, philosophically: I want to live green, but I want to do it in an oil-rich state. One of many reasons I try not to get all evangelical on people about their credos.

I doubt the grease cars will ever become mainstream, but I do think they're a great option until the engineers come up with something brilliant. Just like eventual massive tidal waves, the question of the petroleum running out is not if, but when. I think it's pretty exciting to be alive at a time - we're being forced to find creative ways to deal with our problems. That's WAY cool!

I'll check back in, later. In the meantime, I have to go to my Alaska History class. (They expect teachers to know state history prior to licensure. The nerve! ;))

Stay well and turn off the lights when you leave the room, kids! (See how I stayed on topic, there? Pretty clever.)

PS - Charlotte, I'm not ignoring you, I'm just out of time to look up the expected tsunami impact. :)

mandalinn82
03-14-2007, 09:23 PM
I'm a liberal and spent the entire time I watched "An Inconvenient Truth" pointing out the numerous factual inaccuracies, exaggerations, and half truths contained in the film. I think it was at best misinformed, and at worst, dangerously misleading. HOWEVER...

I believe that even if we don't know precisely what is going on with the environment, conserving and protecting the environment is necessary...precisely because modern science can't accurately predict what the human effect on the environment is/will be, and its a heck of a risk to take.

I believe its possible to be an environmentalist without necessarily being overenthusiastic from a scientific viewpoint about the current evidence for the global warming phenomenon. You'll never hear me say "global warming isn't happening" but you might often hear me say "well, we don't really know if thats happening, the evidence is conflicting and/or based on computer models with fairly ambiguously defined inputs". I also think its possible to apply logic to possible environmental controls that adequately balance cost (both monetary and in human lives) with the environmental benefit of the control, and come to rational decisions that don't have to be all the way to one side or another.

I get a -lot- of heat for this from my friends, and I'm used to it, but please be gentle with me - I'm happy to share information on my views of the evidence if anyone is interested, but I've had this fight so many times that I don't want things to get heated again. Its just my viewpoint, based on the research that I have done. If I get anyone mad, I'll happily drop out of the conversation...just wanted to add to a conversation I care deeply about.

On the "but why risk it" note, Sarah and I have one car, I telecommute and Sarah works 3 miles from home and walks to work the majority of the time. We recycle, and our city has a solid recycling program as well. I get paper bags at the grocery store and use them instead of trash bags, sometimes with a plastic bag liner if whatever I'm throwing away is wet.

I buy predominantly local, organic produce...less miles trucked = less gas burned, and the organic is more sustainable long-term than commercial farming. I also buy in bulk to reduce packaging, maintain my car to keep gas mileage humming along, and refill non-disposable water bottles with Brita tap water to eliminate disposable plastics and bottled water travel time.

I pack lunches each day in re-useable tupperware containers, which fit into re-useable lunch boxes. I take FAST showers. And I can't WAIT to get a dishwasher (if you have a modern dishwasher, they use approximately 1/6 of the water, half the electricity, and less soap than washing a comparable load of dirty dishes by hand, so long as you fill the dishwasher before running it).

Our cats use natural litter made of compressed pine sawdust, which is compostable and biodegradable (and which is so awesome for other reasons...reduces odor to nothing, doesn't track, is cheaper than standard litters, etc).

There are lots of other everyday things too - I calculated our carbon footprint once and it was about half that of the typical American.

EZMONEY
03-14-2007, 09:44 PM
Has anyone else noticed that every thread I start is filled with posts of ~ not only :smoking: :hot: women but SMART ones too!You gals are going places!! :carrot:

NemesisClaws
03-14-2007, 11:41 PM
Wow, a lot of great ideas! I live in Kentucky, and believe me, it's not easy at all to be green around here. What I have done is have environmentally lightbulbs, eat organically (when I can since the prices are a bit high), and am carpooling with my mother. I personally don't plan on having my own car because it's such a money drainer besides the whole oil issue. As far as the whole recyling issue, my area doesn't have a THING for that. But I will look into that as soon as possible, and see what other options I have. Lastly, my mother and I have been saving the plastic grocery bags to use either as garbage bags or as a garbage bag for my nephew when his diaper is a bit....ahem....stinky. :)

lizziness
03-15-2007, 12:36 AM
oh. i forgot. the grocery store i go to Market of Choice uses biodegradable "plastic" bags. They are pretty good. We do live upstairs and the bags tear easily so sometimes we have to double bag things... but I always reuse my bags multiple times, mostly as a reusable lunch bag or to carry things to work with me. I just found that I don't reuse the paper ones, so I may as well just pass.

A long time ago we replaced our bulbs, forgot all about it. I have been doing research here and there on how to live green when I have my own home, because that is definitely different than apartment dwelling. The coolest housing option that I've found is the glide house. I suggest you google it.. it's awesome. It can be equipped with electricity if you need it, but it is designed to run completely on it's own.Plus, it's just very modern and neat looking. If we had the money,we'd get one. Since we won't... I will stick to looking into reusable sources, paint that won't pollute, energy conscious appliances...but sadly I think that time will be a ways off for me.

lizziness
03-15-2007, 12:44 AM
oh! and brother in law who lives with me rides his bike to work every day 6 miles each way rain or shine. He doesn't even plan on ever having a car or bothering to get his driver's license. I am impressed.

cinderly
03-15-2007, 02:54 AM
I agree that none of us know for sure what is causing global warming, but I was under the impression that the theory was well-supported. Amanda, I'd love links/sources for your info - I try to stay open to new ideas.

I also think it's interesting and cool to see the ways in which such a diverse group of people have embedded greener living into their every day lives. That's so heartening to me.

One last thought - another reason to reduce our waste is that usable land in urban areas is becoming a more and more precious resource. Since landfills tend to leach all sorts of nasty stuff into the soil, groundwater, and air, they aren't suitable housing sites even after they're closed. (Older, unregulated landfills are worse for this than newer ones.) So it's our best interests to keep current and future landfills on the small side.

mandalinn82
03-15-2007, 03:33 AM
I agree that none of us know for sure what is causing global warming, but I was under the impression that the theory was well-supported. Amanda, I'd love links/sources for your info - I try to stay open to new ideas.

The idea that the globe is warming is indeed well supported with temperature data. What isn't well supported is how much of the data has to do with increased structural/population stuff (more concrete + more people = more heat - temperature rises in NYC and Tokyo, for example, have been exponentially larger than temperature rises in rural areas, which allows for all sorts of data problems, not only in that it pumps up the mean temperature of the globe with relatively few cities data, but also in that major research centers, where the temperature data is more likely to be collected, are located predominantly in major cities...so you have higher-than-average increases in the areas where most of your data is being taken).

The Inconvenient Truth issue - well, it lost most if not all credibility when the producers played the Katrina card. The consensus statements from the big international global warming commission that just put out the big climate report (IPCC? International Panel on Climate Change? I think thats right...) basically said that you can't attribute any particular hurricane to global warming, that computer models don't have enough data to predict accurately whether hurricanes will increase with global warming. Also, hurricane numbers have decreased with industrialization...there is no upward trend. So to play an emotionally hotbutton issue like Katrina, link it to global warming which isn't supported by the research, and then say that the hurricane "really drove home" that the movie needed to be made was, IMO, irresponsible given the actual data. Will link to in the morning.

It depends what sort of data you are OK with accepting as truth. With computer models, I want to know what the inputs are. I want to know where the temperature data is coming from. I want to have more global information regarding a global phenomenon (there are thousands of glaciers in the world - 100 or so have been extensively inventoried, and melting or shrinking of ice has been found in only a limited selection of those. That doesn't convince me that all glaciers are melting, especially when other studies are finding thickening of the ice in most areas of the icecaps). Another example - Kilimanjaro - Gore showed photos in his documentary of Kilimanjaro from some time ago, and from today - but prevailing scientific opinion on that is leaning toward the idea that it is deforestation at the base of the of the mountain, resulting in dry air blowing up the sides that is evaporating moisture and preventing snowfall from accumulating on the mountain, thus reducing the size of the ice cap. Its a convenient picture for the global warming argument, but it just isn't backed up with study.) Most importantly, I want to know how accurate your computer models have been at predicting climate change. Estimates in the mid 90's said that global temperature would increase, on average between the studies, about 300% more than it actually did...that is not exactly confidence-inspiring in the ability of these computer models to predict what is going to happen 20 years from now, as the technology and inputs haven't changed all that much.

References tomorrow once I have slept enough to catalog them all...

Tristesse
03-15-2007, 07:11 AM
I reuse my grocery bags. I get odd looks sometimes when I plop them up on the counter but a few times, people have said "way to go". I want to actually start collecting a stock of "bags for life" so I don't have to use anything else. If you don't want to reuse your plastic grocery bags then at least recycle them.

I used to work at a grocery store and we actually gave people 0.03 off their bill per bag they used. Doesn't sound like much but added up to be about what a coupon would save each grocery trip.

As for me.
We recycle, buy consigned mostly clothes (the shop, which is so well priced, is in an upscale area of town so it's always nice stuff with almost no wear), use rechargable batteries, use natural cleaning supplies (Sun and Earth detergent is a godsend, we got it once just because it was cheap and didn't come in a huge container - it's all natural, you use like...2-4 tablespoons per load and it smells sooo good) like Method and Sun and Earth. They're priced well so it works out great. There's probably more but I can't think of it offhand.

BerkshireGrl
03-15-2007, 08:04 AM
Rather than dealing with your junk mail AFTER it gets to your home, how about stopping it at the source? ;)

Check out the Direct Marketing Association, which can dramatically cut down on the junkola you get:

https://www.dmaconsumers.org/cgi/offmailing

Now I just gotta get Coldwater Creek to stop sending me a friggin' clothing catalog every 2 weeks! (Seriously, talk about overkill!)

royalsfan1
03-15-2007, 10:27 AM
Cinderly - I think I'm gonna like you, girl! From one hippie liberal chick to another. :D

EZ - We'll have to agree to disagree on this one....I'm too busy to argue. I've got to go out and make sure that all the mosquitoes that are hatching aren't flying around my place and put out some potted geraniums to keep them away (did you know that geraniums are a natural mosquito repellant?) Too bad the winter didn't get cold enough to kill them all off! I remember when that used to happen! ;)

royalsfan1
03-15-2007, 10:35 AM
Another benefit on the greasecar: many restaurants have to pay to dispose of their grease, so they will generally let the grease go for FREE. (Have to have a diesel to convert, first, which is what's stopping me. The folks I've met who have them absolutely love them.)

Before I moved to TN I was a chemist for a company that was working to convert restaurant grease and turkey carcasses into crude oil. It was the most rewarding and fascinating work of my entire life!!! What is so exciting is that if we're able to do it we eliminate the addition of carbon into our atmosphere...instead, we continue to reuse the carbon that is already here ABOVE GROUND...eliminating the drilling for oil. It was successful in that in was being done on a daily basis....it was still unsuccessful in that we were still working to overcome a lot of obstacles on the big plant production level that we had not run into in the lab. It's very exciting for our future, though...while we're waiting on the "air" cars....which I find most exciting of all! If anyone wants to read on what I'm talking about...feel free to PM me and I'll give you a link.

mandalinn82
03-15-2007, 02:40 PM
Hydrogen fuel cells, also! I worked for an institute studying transportation in high school - I've driven electric cars, fuel cell cars, etc. I think we're eventually going to move to hydrogen once some of the technical issues are resolved. And the only thing coming out of the tailpipe is water.

Anyway, had written a huge response explaining all of my views on this, but it got deleted, so I'm just going to point to references and answer questions if people ask them on why I think they are relevant.

Hurricanes and Global Warming...contrary to the documentary, the website on the documentary, are Gore's acceptance speech:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

(http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/glob_warm_hurr.html)

Effect of the Kyoto Protocol (expensive, my point is whether such an expensive measure is worth it for the estimated resulting change in climate, even with US participation):

http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-pm072998.html

Also in combination with the above article, look at this estimate of climate change here. Specifically consider that the estimates from 1988-1998 climate change was overestimated by 300% over a period of 10 years, and that most current temperature projections on which global warming policy and media reports are based are projecting to 2050 or 2100, a period 5 to 10 times longer than the previous predictions. I have yet to see any evidence that our ability to predict via computer models has improved much in the past 10-15 years, so it calls into question the projections currently being supported, especially since the time interval is so much longer and the previous predictions were off by so so much:
http://web.mit.edu/globalchange/www/rpt73.html

Thickening of Ross Ice Shelf:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/cold-science/2002-01-18-wais-thicker.htm

Urban Heat Island Effect (check the references on the wiki article if you're not ok with using wikipedia as your only reference):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island

Essentially, our best estimate of the effect of the urban heat effect is that the effect is very small (.05 degrees or so) - but its about the same as the effect of the kyoto protocol on global temperature by 2100 (.07 degrees), so it seems inconsistent to lobby for one and call the other insignificant.

Basically, my questions re: global warming are these:
1) Why would the projections we are making today be any more accurate than those made in the late 80's which grossly overestimated warming? If anyone can quantify how our computer models have changed in such a way that the data would now be more accurate, I'd love to see it...

2) Why are global statements being made (glaciers are melting WORLDWIDE, due to global warming) when those statements are not global (not all major ice structures and glaciers are melting, some are thickening, and the melting of some glaciers isn't believed to be related to global warming, but to other causes like deforestation...as is the case with Kilimanjaro, which is likely melting due to deforestation at the base. http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=14287

3) Why is more money not being sunk into viable alternate technologies? For example, storing atmospheric carbon in ocean bottoms, effectively capturing it and removing it from the global-warming equation. http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=41349 Or research on viable alternative power sources (right now, we'd have to cover the entire state of nevada with solar panels to meet our electricity needs!).

I believe the globe is getting warmer. I know that computer models have overestimated warming in the past, and therefore have some doubts that current projections made by similar computer models are not overestimated as well. I believe that warming can be attributable to many factors including, but not limited to, greenhouse gases, deforestation, natural warming cycles, the urban heat island effect, and increased global population.

I also know that, currently, the technology to make a serious dent in US greenhouse gas emissions isn't viable, and that even if it was, no new technology solves one problem without creating others. Wind power, for example, can create electricity but has a tendency to behead birds in large numbers. Solar power is great, but requires such a large surface area that we'd have to cover entire states with solar panels. Nuclear power is one of the cleanest, most efficient out there, but has its own risks and was out of favor with environmentalists until very recently.

EZMONEY
03-16-2007, 12:47 AM
I want to thank you girls again for all the information. It is all very interesting! I admire you all!

BerkshireGrl
03-16-2007, 07:31 AM
...Anyway, had written a huge response explaining all of my views on this, but it got deleted, so I'm just going to point to references and answer questions if people ask them on why I think they are relevant...

Mandalinn, thank you for such an informative post! :D