Discussion Three - Key Two: Healing Feelings

[Angel26519]

Hi everyone!

I thought I would go ahead and open this thread up for discussion.... I know lots of you are jumping ahead and are chomping at the bit....

I havent finished reading mine yet (which is very unusual for me- I normally read a book in a day or two) but with all the studying for real estate school and working full time and having two teenagers - I am running out of time..... I will finish up today and post later.....

Feel free to start the ball running!

I have loved all the discussion and by play that has been going on! I think it is great!

[diphthong]

This is what happened to me. I have/had a big problem with anger. I'm really a very nice and pleasant person, but when I get mad, I get M-A-D. I don't throw things or kick, but I mouth. And I get my blood pressure up, or in cases with my husband, I say what's on my mind, leave the room and head for the frig.

I always knew I was angry with my mother for being unavailable physically and emotionally. When my father died when we were children, we were not allowed to talk about him or grieve. I grew up feeling that having cancer was as bad as being incarcerated for an evil crime, and I was ashamed that my father up and died on us. This was because of her false pride in that she didn't want people to think of her "as the poor young widow with 3 kids." The face she showed the world, and the very unpleasant person she was at home were like Jekyl and Hyde. She was also very critical; no matter what I did to try and please her, it was never good enough. When I was in my 30's I went into therapy for it because I felt guilty that I didn't like my mother. The therapist left me with the thought, "There is no law that you *HAVE* to be friends with your mother." In her last years, I did what I needed to, out of obligation not love, to help her. After she died, I felt relief. And I did one of those scenerios where I sat her down in a chair and pretended she was there, sitting silent and unable to lash back, while I told her exactly how she had hurt me. But I also forgave her because I realized that she couldn't help the way she was because of her own sorry upbringing. It worked; case closed. I rarely think of her any more. I just wasn't one of those lucky people who was blessed with a loving mother that could be a friend and guide throughout adulthood.

But I was stilll angry. So after reading Dr. Phil, I sat down and wrote a letter in my journal to everyone I felt had done me wrong, analyzed what they did, and forgave them for each various reason. I felt better, but there was still something there, eating at me, but I couldn't identify it. The only person I hadn't addressed yet was my husband.

Then, on Friday's Dr. Phil show on personaity types, the first couple drew me out. As Dr. Phil asked the wife questions to help her identify where the anger was coming from, it hit me. I was still angry at my husband for an incident that happened 8 years ago for which I have never forgiven him, and continued to hold over his head. What compounded my anger is that since that incident, any little thing he did to piss me off, festered into something larger than what it should have been. So I was building anger on top of anger on top of anger, and holding it all in! Any time I had to "let him have it," I'd yell, and stomp out of the room, and then give him the silent treatment for days. He is not a fighter, so in an attempt to control my own anger in front of him, I was causing myself to get eaten up on the inside, while pushing it down with food as a tranquillizer. I now believe that food as a comforter (mother) and tranquillizer (anger management) has been a large part of my problem.

Once I made this realization just a few days ago and recognized what I was doing to myself, I felt immediate relief. I could once again look at him as the man I fell in love with, for all of his wondersul qualitites, and not the man who does typical male things that annoy women. I let go of the 8 year old incident because he never did anything remotely close to that since. (Just for your curiosity, the incident involved a vacation with another couple, who changed the plans at the last minute. I refused to go because it was not what we agreed to, and he went anyway without me. There are some details not worth going into, but my overall feeling was that he dishonored me by going.)

I know other people have had terrible things happen to them in life. My only hope is that others will be fortunate enough to get through their emotions that antagonize their inner self and move forward.

dip

[nanj]

What I got out of "Healing Feelings":

There will always be somekind of stress in my life. Rather I'm thin, fat, wealthy, or poor. Doesn't matter it will alway be there, but "whatever the situation, you can choose your reaction. you do have a choice about rather an event in your life will be your undoing or something you deal with appropriately."

Denial:

-It is a dangerous because it supresses the truth about yourself.
-Pressure cooker reaction
-After I blow then I am sorry guilty, ashamed and turn to food.

Change your emotional response:

-Slow down and listen to your thinking
-Evaluate your reaction
-Alter that reaction

Give emotional closure:

-Emotions change what I do and contaminate what I have to give
-MER

Forgiveness that part spoke for itself.

"The past is over! The future hasn't happened yet. The only time is now!"

I write these everyday in my food journal. I apply this to both my emotional stressors and craving for food:

1. Are they true emotions/ cravings?
2. Do they serve my best interest?
3. Do they advance/protect my health?
4. Do they help me achieve my weight-management goal?

I can't wait to see how some of the people deal with their tramatic childhoods on the show next Monday.

[mauvaisroux]

nanj- I found a little blurb today that your post reminded me of...

"The key for true happiness is to make sure that regardless of where you end up, that you are enjoying the spot where you currently are."

I definetly need to change my reactions - I have come to the conclusion that I cause a lot of my own stress since I tend to take things too seriously sometimes and get angry, frustrated and stressed when things are not as I think they should be. I take small things to heart that I need to let go and forget about.

Dip- I am glad that you finally forgave your husband :grouphug: and I hope that your relationship grows better as you continue your journey.

I loved your story about how you released your feelings about your mother and set yourself free :df:

[LuckyLadyBug]

I am reading but I don't "feel" anything sinking in. I am going to start at the beginning again to get this. I seem to have short answers to these questions and then can't come up with a positive thought to cancel it out. It's like I can't think beyond the first negative short answer.

I shall return.

Your posts are very helpful. Thanks.

[nanj]

Mauraisroux,

Have you tried the relaxation exercise at the end of the BOOK? I think that I will try it. I usually have a lot of patience with people, well everyone but myself. But I have noticed over the years that I have gotten more synical and bitter in my reaction to people and even worse to myself. I have read the whole book through and am applying it as best as I can understand how, but the last couple of days I have been edgy and craving. So I reassessed my inner talk and decided that I just need to relax. So tomorrow, I will find a way to do the exercise. I have spent so much time on concentrating on food and what I can eat next that I am having a little more time to do things.

I read an article in the local paper that Dr. Phil should have put how to handle stress in the BOOK. Evidently, the women who wrote the article had not read the whole BOOK.

I have found that going back and re-reading the book and following along with the show has helped me apply what the BOOK says better.

DIP:

Your experience with your sister broke my heart. I have four sister and couldn't imagine what you went through. What you have gone through with your mother is a little bit what my sister and I have dealt with. My mother married young and had us four older girls boom, boom, boom. She is distant and couldn't wait for each one of us to graduate and hit the road. She doesn't take a part in my children, grandchildren and my life. I feel sad that we can take a day and go shopping, eat out and have fun. It took me thirty years to tell her NO and to realize that no matter what me and my family does in life, we will never be appreciated for it. But, it is okay. I have a wonderful relationship with my kids and grandkids. We go place and do little things just to keep us close. I really work at it and so does my husband. My family is a real joy. They are not perfect, but very giving!

I can't believe that I even talk about some of the crap that I have on this website. It is very freeing. I hope that I can talk about it here and than give it up. Keep trying to remember that "Yesterdays gone; the future isn't here yet; there is only today!"

[mauvaisroux]

Thanks nanj! I haven't read that far yet :lol: but I will have a sneak peek at it :D

[nanj]

Mauvaisrous,

Word of caution here:

I tried the relaxation thing 3:00 a.m. after a hot flash. Man, my husband thought that I was having a heart attack. I tried to do the breathing according to Dr. Phil's instruction and when I really concentrated on breathing, it didn't come natural and I got really short of breath; shot up out of bed and scared my husband to death. Never was very coordinated! LOL!

[mauvaisroux]

:lol: I'll remember that when I try it out tonight nanj! :lol:

[ShihtzuX2]

I have been struggling to read the book. Every night I crawl into bed, decide I'm going to read, and most nights don't do it. I'm resistant. My slacks keep getting tighter by the day, I'm down to only a few things that BARELY fit, I feel like an inflated slug, and yet I resist something that could help me.

So I've been trying to sort THAT out, figuring out, as Dr. P. would, "What's the payoff?"

The biggest payoff is: It's easier to indulge the binge-ing and feeling bad than to try to do the work I need to do to stop it.

I also got this very timely e-mail from E-diets today, with an article attached "22 Reasons Why You'll be Fat Forever" that emphasizes what an emotional and intellectual overhaul I need to undertake in order to accomplish the physical overhaul:


22 Reasons You Might Be Fat Forever.

1. You are still looking for a quick and easy solution to weight loss.

2. You think that diet and exercise are the only essential factors involved in weight loss.

3. You have not identified the psychological reasons that drive your eating patterns.

4. You have not learned to manage or heal the psychological reasons that drive your eating patterns.

5. You have a fear of or resistance to growing up and becoming a full adult.

6. You use food as a reward or a treat after any or all stressful events.

7. You think you can lose weight without making exercise a regular part of your day, every day.

8. You think you can lose weight by doing it “your way.”

9. You expect to lose weight without making significant lifestyle changes.

10. You refuse to learn to become a good receiver as well as a good giver.

11. You have never learned to be effectively and appropriately assertive.

12. You have not learned to express your anger in a healthy, honest fashion.

13. You have not learned to be self-nurturing except with food.

14. You are excessively self-critical.

15. You refuse to take responsibility for your life.

16. You resist learning to love yourself.

17. You resist learning to love your body before it is thin.

18. You have not faced your inner fears of being thin.

19. You are certain that spirituality (a connection to a force greater than you) is irrelevant to weight loss.

20. You think you can lose significant weight without the support of others.

21. You have deep emotional wounds that you refuse to explore and heal.

22. You are not prepared to have weight be an issue that you will have to face each and every day for the rest of your life.

OK, now you have some incredibly important information about yourself and the things that are blocking your weight loss. You now have a choice. You can get depressed and go into avoidance or denial, or you can choose to make a renewed and informed commitment to your growth and well-being. The decision you make could change your life and your body for good!


Matthew Anderson, D. Min., is a counselor, organizational consultant, seminar leader and the author of books and tapes that can help you overcome your obstacles to well-being.

[Libra925]

Sami, I can really relate your struggle with the book. I've been reading it at night also, and nothing is sinking in. What Dr. Phil says makes perfect sense, but I just can't remember what I've read 10 minutes later! I'm still trying, though. I may have to read the book several times, but I think it's worth the effort. I read the posts here and everyone else seems to have such a good grasp of the book and their insights into his questions. This is helping me more than the book is.

I'll just keep plodding along and hoping the light will go on soon.

Dip, you are an amazing woman. Your story touched my heart.

Marilyn

[Angel26519]

Hey Ladies....

I know that I cant read this book and get anything out of it at night when I crawl into bed.... I am tired, my brain is tired, I dont want to think.... if I do read I want the fluff that it doesnt matter what I have just read....

Try reading in the morning or at lunch or during your breaks at work or somewhere else but at night.... by then you are so exhausted that you just wont get anything out of it.

Good Luck!

[Mima]

I read a chapter a day in the morning-I love to get up early and read when it's quiet-then I am motivated for the day. I answer the questions and underline. Works for me. Mima

[diphthong]

Wow, those 22 things lay it out briefly and bluntly, huh?

I do most of my reading in the morning too. And probably 90% of it in the bathroom where I have some peace and quiet. I'm still going back each day and reviewing Dr. Phil's book, and getting something out of it each time. My book has so much yellow-highlighter on the pages, it looks like it was printed that way.

Marilyn, I am *not* amazing but fortunate that 'I got it' after almost 30 years of self-inflicted misery. And I'm hardly finished, not even half way there, actually. The one thing I hope for anyone is that you don't wait to make a change too late in your life like I did. I am 51, but can't look back and only to the present day, and forward. This is a journey of learning about myself and my body, and I plan on having my 'masters' by this time, 2004. Dr. Phil has provided the textbooks, I have to do the work.

Have a great day!

dip

[Libra925]

Mima, Angel and Dip, thanks for sharing your best reading times. I really hate to get up in the mornings, but I want to do this so I guess I'll have to sacrifice some snooze time for a healthier future.

Dip, I do understand about change. I divorced my husband of almost 36 years in June. We had been separated for three years when I filed for divorce. Six years ago, he discovered a night life that did not include me. I can't remember how many nights I would lie awake waiting for him to come home. I am 54 and until we separated, I had never lived on my own. I went from my parent's house to his house. If I do say so myself, I'm doing a great job of taking care of myself financially and emotionally. Physically, I weigh 282 lbs and this is the next big change in my future. I am down from 297 at Christmas 2002, so I've made a little progress this year. I haven't been truly committed to being healthier before now. I don't blame the weight gain on the unhappy marriage. No one forced me to eat, but I did eat out of frustration, anger and hurt. Now, I am creating my own world and I am responsible for ALL of my actions. I think it's going to be a great adventure.

Marilyn

[Angel26519]

WE NOW HAVE 51 MEMBER INTRODUCTIONS!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!

[Summerlover]

This section is heavy duty. I was able to get through the beginning sitting in waiting rooms, before bed or whatever. Now this is like a college textbook. I have to really concentrate and think deeply. That is tough when you have young children and a nosy husband. I didn't want to write anything in the book in case someone picked it up to look at it. So I wrote on separate pieces of paper. Then when I realized that this will require lots of writing and referring back to it, I transferred it all to a journal. I couldn't really give this chapter my full attention this week, so I am going back, reading it again, and really studying it like I used to as a college student. I really want to get started, but so much deep thinking is required and it is soooo hard to do that with a busy lifestyle. I wish I could go away by myself for a week so that I could give my full attention to this book. I know it would work. I envy those people in his program. I need a controlled environment.

Summer

[Skinny4baby]

Me too Summer!!!!!...I know this book would help me tremendously!!!...BUT...I seem to be sooo busy...WHY?..It is not that I do not have the discipline!..I just need some peace!!!!:mad:

[Rowan Bailey]

This was a very powerful key for me. I realted very much to the story about Sandra, as I was a very developed 11 year old, so much that older men just thought that I was closer to 17-18 years old....it was very scary and I was taken advanage of, not by a family member. I was a beautiful child, so the only way I could defect attention was in gaining weight.

The stress audit was good for me, I rated over 300, and he said that if yours was over 65 you were high risk...that was frightening for me.

I have been working very hard at this key, long before I read this chapter, but it was very validating to hear what he said and how he frames it...I just love Dr. Phil.

I know that accepting the fact that I am an emtional eater was probably the most difficult thing, and he is right, you can't change what you don't acknowledge....very powerful stuff.

The story about his SIL Cindi was also very touching.....I am looking forward to seeing the show this week....it is so darn healthy to begin healing, it really does allow us the freedom and breath that we all need no matter what issues we are dealing with.....

I really like his perspective about taking ownership of your reactions, and how it is vetter to resolve rather than to react to problems in life....I really an looking at integrating that into my life....

[Angel26519]

Hi Everyone!

This really relates to our very 1st discussion but unfortunately at the time we had decided to close the thread to further posts after the week was up.... not doing that anymore....

Anyway, I found this little jot that I thought was quite good and appropriate and thought I would share it with everyone...

Willpower and Weight Loss

How many times have you heard someone say - "If only I had the willpower to lose weight?
How many times have you said it, yourself? Quite a lot, I expect.

Poor old willpower! It always gets the blame.

Why can't we stick to a diet? Because we lack willpower.
Why do we fall into temptation? Because we lack willpower.
Why do we eat a whole cake in one sitting? Because we lack willpower.

We see willpower as a magical quality. If someone has it, they're invincible - if they don't have it, they're done for.

What's more, we can't really develop willpower, can we? No way! Either we have it, or we don't. And we DON'T have it, right? And so life goes on. We continue trying to lose weight but we never succeed, because in our heart of hearts we KNOW we don't have the willpower to do it. And each failure reinforces our feeling of helplessness.

Does this sound like you? Do you suffer from lack of willpower?
If so, let me give you some help.

1. Say Goodbye to the word WILLPOWER.
2. Say Hello to the word INCENTIVE.

You see, we think of willpower as something we either have or we don't. Like a big nose, a gift for music, or a sense of humor. So we feel helpless to develop any for ourselves. We just sit on our butt and say: "Help! I don't have any willpower"...(sob).

In other words, focusing on willpower gives us a sore butt and precious little else.

But INCENTIVES are different. We don't inherit incentives. We find and develop them for ourselves. In fact, we can develop an incentive for almost anything, including dieting.

So stop thinking WILLPOWER and start thinking INCENTIVE.

Remember, losing weight isn't a matter of gritting your teeth and overcoming 168 different pain barriers.

It's about choosing to be slim, rather than fat.
It's about choosing a slim lifestyle, rather than a burger and fries lifestyle.

After all, you don't HAVE to be slim. You can be any shape or size you want. So stop worrying about lack of willpower and concentrate on finding a good incentive to lose weight. Something positive to aim for, that will keep you going in the weeks ahead.

And if you can't find a good incentive, then maybe you don't really want to be slim. Maybe you'd rather eat cookies. In which case, stop worrying about dieting and find happiness elsewhere.

Written by Anne Collins

[nanj]

This is my second day of overeating and binging. I have given my self every opportunity on both Saturday and Sunday to eat myself silly. Had a big case of worthliness, ashamed, anger and self-hate going. So what went wrong:

1. Continue to be anxious because biopsy report not back on Friday. 2. Didn't eat breakfast Saturday 3. Weighed in 1/2# more than last week. 4. Went to one of my favorite resturant and gorged. 5. Continued to eat Saturday night even when my stomach hurt and had heartburn. 6. Sunday got up and fixed pork scrapple, biscuits, fried potatoes and bacon (stuff that I haven't made in years!) 7. Ate modest lunch around 2:00 8. By 4:30 fixed an awful frozen pizza and ate half 9. Ate a cup of shoestring potato chips and scraffed down 1 1/2 creamed filled donutes, when I finally started thinking about the four rules that I had been applying for four weeks now:

-It this true hunger?
-Is it benefiting me?
-Is it advancing my health?
-Is it helping me meet my weight loss goal?

How could I have stopped all of this from happening? Forgive myself and start fresh! It is not the end of the world! I don't know what my biopsy will show, but what is, is! Change my environment by getting rid of all the junk (Can't eat it if it is not there!), have a plan before I go eat out (NO BUFFETS), and when I get the urge to eat, start some kind of exercising.

"When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences!"

[Summerlover]

Okay, today I carved out an hour of time for myself. I went to church this morning with the family. I took DD to a movie in the afternoon. I put a whole chicken in the oven at 4:30. I then told my DH and DD that I needed some time alone, and I was not to be disturbed. I locked myself in my bedroom, lit a lavendar scented candle, turned on my spa relaxation CD, and got comfortable with Dr. Phil's book, my journal, and a pen in bed.

I reread key #2. Then I dug deeply into my heart. All sorts of things from my past came to light. I began to write a letter to my dead mother. I wrote in a stream of conscious kind of way...whatever came to mind leading to the next thought...I wrote it all down. I began to realize some hurts that were buried. I wept...hard like a young child. I couldn't even see through the tears and just kept on writing. I ended up writing a 10+ page letter to my mother finally forgiving her and releasing myself at the end. Of course, in the middle of the hysterical crying and writing, my DD & DH banged on the door because he just had to have his slippers...so much for respecting my privacy. I just covered my face and waited for them to leave the room. I didn't let them stop me from finishing purging all of the pain. When I was done, I felt wonderful, exhausted, and relieved.

I really wish that I had a "safe" place to do this in private. But, that is not reality for most of us. We have to do this healing in the real world. And, when I came downstairs expecting an inquisition about my time in my room, my DH didn't say a word. So, even if he is rude by interrupting my private time, at least he didn't make fun of me for my behavior. Tomorrow, I have the day off from work, and I plan to use that time to try Pilates for the first time. This way, I will only have my DD watching me while I look awkward with a new exercise. I have very little confidence in my body. I was never athletic, and I prefer to exercise without others watching.

Back to Dr. Phil...this chapter was mindblowing. I know that there is more stuff buried in my psyche that I need to deal with. At least I know that I am beginning to work out all this stuff which means that there is indeed hope for me!

Summer

[Rowan Bailey]

Nanj
We have all been there, what is really amazing is that you recognize what you did, that is transformation. You intervened in your own action, and even though you did overeat you accept your actions and the next time this comes up you get the opportunity to handle it differently.

I look at this as our learning curve and it sounds like your learning, and more importantly, it didn't comfort you, because you know what your doing....the binges don't taste as good to me because now I look at why I am bingining...I can't run away from that!!!

Thanks for being so brave in posting this and GOOD WORK!!! Tomorrow you get to be what you learned today......work it doll!!

:cheers:

Originally posted by nanj
How could I have stopped all of this from happening? Forgive myself and start fresh! It is not the end of the world! I don't know what my biopsy will show, but what is, is! Change my environment by getting rid of all the junk (Can't eat it if it is not there!), have a plan before I go eat out (NO BUFFETS), and when I get the urge to eat, start some kind of exercising.

"When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences!" :

[diphthong]

nanj, I can understand your anxiety awaiting that report. But like Rowan said, you recognized exactly what you were doing. Please keep us posted about your biopsy.

Summer, your post touched my heart. I know exactly what you went through writing to your mother and getting it all out. I admire your courage in taking that step because it is so difficult to face what we have denied, or shoved down. And the privacy aspect - been there too. My DH has kidded me on occasion, but I just told him quite firmly, "You deal with your stuff your way, and I'll deal with mine my way." See, the thing is about most men, is they *don't* deal with their stuff. They don't have a clue that they even have stuff to deal with. (Other than Thomas/Donnie on the Dr. Phil Challenge, the other men, Fred and the DJ weren't very forthcoming about the emotional side of eating. But the women are upfront on the emotional part of it.) It may be hard to believe at this point of your journey, but when you put your feelings and yourself first, then the others closest to you will benefit and be happier. I challenge *anyone* to do this for 6 months persistently, and then come back and tell me I was wrong. Bless your heart, Summer, and cyber hugs to you!

dip

[Angel26519]

Everybody has been wonderful!

Your insights, Your willingness to share your experiences, your openess is helping us all....

I am still stuck on this key and that is why I havent posted on it yet.... I have lots of this to deal with.... Grandfather that sexually abused me, Mother that physically and emotionally abused me, father that abandonded me, a brother that also abandoned me, ex husband that abandoned me, etc. etc. etc. so this one will take me awhile....

And with everything else that is going on I havent had a chance to really sit down and deal....

I so understand the binge.... while I havent been in full out binge... I am close.... ate an entire box of mini eclairs on Saturday (1427 calories for whole box).... I didnt eat them all in one sitting but through out the day..... didnt really eat that much more so calorie wise I may not have been out of total control but come on I am sure there is not that much nutrional value in those things. I know that it is stress....

In one way, I wish that they would go ahead and lay me off at work so that I can get it over with.... I know that it is only a matter of time.... but in another way I know that I need the money and to get laid off is only going to add stress there.... UGH!!! Damned if I do..... Damned if I dont!

I am also doing alot of studying in reference to going into real esate.... I really feel that this is my place to be... even the boring stuff seems interesting me.... but now I have started second guessing myself.... what if I am not good enough in it..... what if I cant make any money in it.... what if I fail.... it is crazy to be like this.... why have I started second guessing??? I dont know... I guess that fear of failure is coming out again...

I am someone that gives 110% of myself to whatever I do and I know that with work I am no longer doing that because of the cuts in commission and that hovering of the lay offs.... this missing of my $15,000 bonus check that I was supposed to get in December, and the knowledge that my heart is not in it anymore.... but i feel guilty and bad about myself because of it... I can tell myself that I am pursuing the real estate and needing to focus on this because it is my future but I still feel guilty.

So between all this I am going back and forth between Key one and Key two in trying to work through all of this....

[Rowan Bailey]

Angel
I know, this one is a very intense one. I am looking forward to the show today. I will be working this one for quite some time myself.

I loved the problem opportunity position. My guy and I always have an issue when I get into the "problem" mode....I asked him this weekend if instead of getting mad at me or ignoring me when I get upset, to please just ask me if this is a problem or an opportunity. I really want to be more of an opportunity person when it comes to problems.....I used to be before I got so angry!

I am working on releasing my anger, just like Sandra in the book, that is my emotional work right now.....

I think a lot of people will be hanging with this key for a while!!!!
We can all keep each other company!!!

Thanks Angel for your hard work on the Book Club this is really a great forum.

best,
rb

[nanj]

Hey Angel,

I just want to thank you for opening the book discussion forum and keeping it going. I just want to encourage you to hang in there. It is so hard to let hurts go. The Key 1 & 2 are one of the hardest thing that I have every had to do. Still coping, but I am coping. And you will too. Your tough! You know that old saying "What doesn't kill you, will make you stronger." That's how I think about you when I read your posts. Just by your posting, has helped me. So hang in there!

[Angel26519]

Thanks for the support everyone!

I will get through this.... I know it.... It helps to have those encouraging words every now and then :)

[Summerlover]

Dip, thanks for the hugs! Summer

[diphthong]

Hi Everyone!

I thought I'd bump this discussion because it seems this is where some people have stalled. I have been working this key every single day, and doing *alot* of thinking and soul-searching.

IMO, this key/step is the most difficult. If you watched the tv show this week, you saw how it worked for Barbara, the gal whose 2 sisters died in the auto accident. Dr. Phil told her last week to write a minimum of 20 pages about it as an assignment. Well, she did, but the real feelings didn't come out until Page 13 because she ran out of things to write. What it came down to was that she was still denying her feelings until she was forced to face them, but in a private environment.

If you are hesitating on this key because your life hasn't been effected by something as dramatic as some of us, or the people on the show, don't think you don't have something in your heart that needs to be healed. You can be oblivious to it because you have been in denial for so long that you might not be able to even recognize it.

Let me give you an example of someone I know very well, who is in denial so badly, but has gone through life as a "functional addict." This person is extremely intelligent, whizzed through high school in 3 years and graduated from college at age 20. Even as a child, he wanted to be a certain kind of scientitst. But when it came time to apply at colleges (and all 3 of the best universities accepted him), his father advised him to forget about being the scientist and pursue another specific educational venue. Why? Because there were no guarantees that he would be able to make a decent living or support a family being a scientist. Having the utmost love and respect for his father, he pushed aside his dreams for his father's pragmatic ideals. He has spent his life being a great family man and provider, but has no passion for anything. Other than reading and staying current on his silent scientific interest, he doesn't pursue anything full throttle. He hates and always has, the career he has been suckered into the past 30 years, even though he does a good job. He is often depressed he says, because of his job where he has achieved the highest position he can, but he doesn't know why it depresses him. When suggested he go back to school, he says he doesn't have time because he's supporting his family and can't pay bills and go to school. (lightbulb moment that he is totally oblivious to.) He pretends to be happy on the outside, but anyone can see he has died on the inside. He goes through life viewing everything as a chore and has very little fun. And up until recently, he drank alcohol or did drugs every day. He refuses to seek counseling because he's afraid to face his demons. And the last thing he will admit is that he made a 30 year mistake by listening to his father.

What I'm trying to say it that a demon we need to purge can be as simple as bad advice from a well-meaning parent. It could be something so subtle that we can't easily recognize it and bring it forward for confrontation.

How many of us over-eaters have been living our lives without zest or a passion for anything? How many of us have just been going through the motions of daily living, but know something is missing? How many projects or new hobbies have we pursued in hopes of finding something to be happy about, and never finished? Have you been trying to fill the void with material possesions, only to find they can only bring temporary joy? Do you think you have what you *thought* would make you happy, but still aren't satisfied? Are you a "good person" of the highest integrity and morals, but still think you're not good enough?

Since I'm still working this key, I would appreciate hearing back from anyone who is also. Thanks,

dip

[Libra925]

Dip,

I can really relate to your friend. When I was growing up I briefly entertained the thought of becoming a nurse or a social worker. But "just in case" I took all of the clerical classes in high school. Well, I'm 55 now and a great office worker. I only realized in the last couple of years that there is nothing (other than my children's well-being) that I am passionate about. At this point, I don't even have a clue what I could be passionate about. Since my children are grown with their own lives and my divorce this year, I feel like I'm just coasting. I have a low wattage light bulb in my head that says I should be passionate about myself, but I'm fighting it. There are too many unknowns like could I lose the weight, how would I deal with relationships after I lost it, could I keep it off, would other people expect more of me.

I had such low self-esteem as a young adult that when someone wanted to marry me, I grabbed him because I was afraid no one else would ever want me. Gosh, that's the first time I've committed that thought to print. Unfortunately, the low self-esteem is still an issue. I ask myself who would want a 284 lb grandmother for a life partner? My goodness, I think I better stop for now. This is getting too deep for me while I'm at work.

Anyway, bottom line is I, too, am still working on the feelings.

Marilyn

Sorry if this sounds like a pity trip.

[soiley]

My biggest problem is eating my anger...literally stuffing it down with food. Anger was one of the 7 deadly sins when I was growing up, especially for a girl. I was never allowed to say anything in anger to anyone, most especially parents, so at a very young age when I got mad at someone, I got "fat" at them too. How crazy is that? To this day, even as I am stuffing something down my gullet, I can't admit that it is because I'm mad. And, after so long of doing this, I'm scared to let anger out because it feels like it would be like a nuclear explosion and destroy the world. My therapist says it won't, but she hasn't convinced me yet. :?:

Forgiveness is also hard. I know I must do it to stop being stuck in the past, but no one tells me how to do it. It also feels like if I forgive, it's like saying "well, gee, it's okay that you (fill in the blank)ed me...I forgive you anyway". I know I have to "get real or get real fat", but this is so hard for me. I have made a list of the people I feel like I need to forgive (myself included), but now trying to figure what to do with it. I like the idea of writing letters, but some of the people are dead now, or I have no clue as to their whereabouts. What did you letter writers do with the letters after you wrote them. My therapist says we have to come up with some kind of ceremonial way to get rid of them, so they'll stay gone forever. Any ideas??

Jerie

[sflake]

I didn't even realize that I needed healing until I read this book. So yes I am still working on it. Years ago, when I was with what I thought was the love of my life he broke up with me after years together and said "if you ever lose the weight give me a call and I will come back" I wasn't even that heavy then :lol:

Anyway I realize that I put my love in my appearance. I figured he didn't really love me, for someone to love me they must also love me fat....Kind of a unconditional test. I proceeded to get fat and fall in love again....Then just got heavier & heavier..... I guess deep down inside I am still waiting to be left. Still testing my dh in some warped way.

When it happened I said all the right things...I'm not fat, he didn't really love me etc, etc... Actually he left me for someone else. Looking back now we never would have made it anyway. Way too young and wanted very different things out of life. My head was right but my heart was not. I have been carrying that around in my heart forever....Time to let it be and stop "testing" my loving, supportive dh of 14 years.

It's kinda funny as I am much heavier now and I do run into him from time to time. He is alone and has told me in no uncertain terms that he loves me and always has. Now it's I'm beautiful as I am, if my marriage doesn't work out give him a call, yeah right... Said he was just imature blah, blah. (think he has some issues?)

So that is my tale that I have never spoken about and never realized the profound effect it had on me. Time to let it be...

Thanks for listening :D

[Angel26519]

Jerie,

I too had issues with people that were dead (the person that sexually abused me) and people that I didnt really want to send the letters to because I didnt want the fight that it would cause.... let me tell you what I did with my letters....

Had the house to myself for a few nights.... I created my own ceremony.... I lit candles all over the house, poured me a glass of wine, had great music on that was soothing, took a bubble bath, gave myself a facial, really pampered myself.... then I lit a fire and with my glass of wine I sat by the fire, read each letter that I wrote, cried, and then put it in the fire. I released it from me.... I told the person that it was for that they would no longer have a negative effect on my life. That I would not allow them to continue to have that control. This was my life and I was taking it back. It took hours for me and I ended up exhausted. But I can tell you that I felt "lighter" when I woke up the next day.

Find your own ceremony. Make yourself the special occassion. Take your life back from all of these people.

I hope this helps you!

[Libra925]

Jerie, I understand about the anger. When I saw a counselor a few years ago, I told him I used to wish someone would mug me because I would have killed him. That's how much anger I had inside of me. Thankfully, he hleped me learn how to let it go. I'm experiencing some anger with my ex since our separation and divorce but I'm handling it okay. Now I can tell him what I think without worrying that he will get mad at me. It just doesn't matter anymore.

My church has a service once a year where we write the things down that we want out of our lives and then we burn the paper, symbolically releasing them. We also write down what we want to happen in the next year and keep it to review periodically. I never have lost the weight I'm going to lose. Ha!!! Anyway, Angel's idea sounds great and it can be a very liberating ceremony. Remember the anger is hurting you and no one else. Bless those that hurt you and let them go.

Marilyn

[nanj]

Marilyn,
It is never too late to start a new career. I was 40 when I got my nursing license, 50 when I took up piano, and 52 when I started water colors. I actually went to nursing school with my daughter and sister. Graduated with my sister who is 17 years younger than me. Now, for the first time you have time to spend on yourself. At 284#, you are still skinner than me! Remember that you are not going to stay 284#, get passionate about yourself! You are worth so much! If you love your children and they depend on you, than that is another reason to get passionate about yourself.

I wish I could give you all a big hug. Anger is a terrible thing, I know that first hand. My dad was a very expressive angry person and I vowed I would not be like that. I just internalized it because I didn't know how to deal with it, so I ate and ate, and only by the Grace of God, my family and Dr. Phil's book have I been able to deal with it. I suspect that I will be dealing with things constantly because things just creep up on me now and than. But, I've decided I have beat myself up enough and that I want a life, peace and happiness. Not only do I owe that to my family, I owe it to myself.
Nancy

[soiley]

Thank you all for the input. It really helps. I had to laugh Nanj when I read about you taking up piano at age 50. I bought myself a ukulele last week, as one way to keep my hands busy at night so I won't eat all night, and I'm 58 next week. I have been having so much fun with it, I wished I had done it years ago. I agree that you're never too old to start something new. And I'm not too old to change my life. And neither are the rest of us.

[Libra925]

Nancy, thank you so much for the encouraging words. I did do something radical when I turned 50. I went to massage school. I'm still licensed but haven't practiced in a couple of years. I never really developed enough confidence in myself to think I was doing a good job. Now, I have some arthritis in my hands and it's uncomfortable to massage.

I think I really do need to get passionate about myself and begin loving myself. Dr. Phil's book is great, I think. It's not just another diet book. He really wants us to get down to the bottom line and understand why we do what we do. There was a lot of abuse in my childhood - physical, sexual and emotional. But I keep telling myself that is in the past and I'm in charge of my life now and how I live it. Dad was a 29yo alcoholic and mother was 17 when they married. I believe they both did the best they could at the time. It was just a really crappy childhood.

Man, I can't seem to leave this pity party I'm at!! Please forgive my negativity.

There are some wonderful women on this forum. Thank all of you for sharing.

Marilyn

[FrouFrou]

Dip, thank you again for yet another inspirational post! I can relate to your friend also. Growing up there were things I wanted to do and didn't because of my parents laughing and telling me I wasn't smart enough to do it instead of being proud that I would want to do it. I always wante dto be a teacher or a nurse. Of course being grown up now I know I couldn't be a nurse-I can't stand to give shots or the sight of blood. But I still dream of being a teacher.


How many of us over-eaters have been living our lives without zest or a passion for anything? How many of us have just been going through the motions of daily living, but know something is missing? How many projects or new hobbies have we pursued in hopes of finding something to be happy about, and never finished? Have you been trying to fill the void with material possesions, only to find they can only bring temporary joy? Do you think you have what you *thought* would make you happy, but still aren't satisfied? Are you a "good person" of the highest integrity and morals, but still think you're not good enough?

I have always known something was missing and still do. I don't really have a passion for anything, and go through the motions of daily living. I am happy but at the same time I am not truly happy, does this make sense? I mean I feel truly blessed for everything I have in my life, my kids and DH and they make me happy but deep down I have never really been a happy person well as a child I feel I was happy, but when I became a teenager-no, and I don't think I am good enough or ever will be and that is sad. I have always felt that there is a reason I am here but being 44 years old I still don't know what that reason is. I am still searching. I feel as if I haven't accomplished anything with my life but I am trying to change that.

Marilyn, don't worry about the negativity. We are here for each other to encourage and support whether it be negative or positive.

Sflake, I too didn't realize I needed healing till I read this book. Isn't it amazing how a book can bring out all these feelings?

It has taken me a while to learn how to forgive but I did, I mean truly forgive. Anyway, this was an eye opener for me.

[diphthong]

Hi Gang! Sorry I was MIA for a few days but I'm back. It seems we all are still struggling with this one. Just when I think I have it licked - badda-bing badda bang, I experience another emotion and want to eat, or NOT eat, which is just as bad as we all know.

Cristi, that paragraph you quoted me on - I was talking about me. (Hears Twilight Zone Theme in background.) Just like you (again) I have everything anyone could possibly want to be happy, and I am thankful for each blessing, but I feel so unfulfilled. And I can't put my finger on it. I thrive on change, and when things stay the same, I get bored. I always have these great ideas, think about them, start to implement them and then quit. Any passion for anything just stops. The only childhood experience I can think of that may possibly relate happened when I was in 6th grade. The teacher gave us an assignment to write a report on what we wanted to be in the future, and we had to go to the library and research and outline what it would take to achieve it. (I guess it was his way of introducing goal setting.) I thought I wanted to be a doctor, so I did my research and got an A+ on my report. I brought it home to show Mommy Dearest. After she read it, she said in a very Mommy Dearest voice, something to the effect, "well, don't even think about being a doctor because I can't afford to send you to college let alone medical school." Of course back then I had no clue about grants or scholarships, so my dream, or what I thought was my dream, was dead in the water before I even hit high school. Did she say anything positive about it? Nope. That was one of the things I brought myself to forgive her for - making me feel I wasn't worth the money to educate. Funny thing too, I did not know what I wanted to do for a career until I was 28 years old! I was gun-ho with all the education, and it became an addicition. I used to say selling real estate was like playing the horses.

Just a few months ago, I looked into going back to school, but pursuing a 4 year degree in this particular field would have left me $60,000.00+ in debt with student loans when I graduated. Not a wise business move for someone my age, and I woudn't qualify for grants because my husband makes too much money. And I wasn't totally sure that's what I wanted to do! The plain and simple of it, I guess, is that I don't know or can't idenitfy what I want or need.

So here I dangle with a hole in my heart, not knowing what it will take to fill it, besides jelly bismarks.

dip

[diphthong]

Link to Chapter 4 Discussion -

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36061&page=1&pp=15

The title of this chapter is Healing Feelings, Unlock the Door to Emotional Control

I'm also going to present the link to the discussion in this chapter from the first go-around:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32851


dip

[diphthong]

I'm happy to report that since that last post 3 months ago, I did find what I've been looking for, and can tie it in with the the venue I wanted to pursue without having to get 1 4 year degree.

I am now studying for the exam to become a certified personal trainer. And much continuing ed after that. I'm currently looking for a job in a gym for practical experience.

dip

[Summerlover]

My first go around with this chapter was pretty profound. I spent a lot of time on it, and I think that is where I began to fall behind the rest of the group in the fall.

When I read it and did all of the work Dr. Phil instructed me to, I dug up a lot of stuff from my past that I didn't even know was affecting me. I had a lot of issues with my mother who died in 1986, so I couldn't talk to her about it all. Instead I wrote her a letter...quite a long letter and "told" her what I needed to. I really lost it while I got all of my emotions out. I not only cried, I sobbed hysterically.

I really want to reread this chapter and see if there is any leftover baggage I haven't dealt with yet. But I will be honest, I'm a little hesitant. I hate to lose control of myself, and I really did.

So, when I get the time, privacy, and nerve to do so, I will revisit chapter 5. I know when I do, it will help me. I just have to get up the courage.

Summer

[diphthong]

Hi Summer. That time was a flooding of emotion and tears for me too. At first I took the most obvious reasons I had to be angry, horrible things that happened to me in my life where I was a real victim. But deep down I knew *that* wasn't really it. So I had to dig deeper.

I certainly understand that you need the courage you revisit that place. I haven't made a concerted effort to reread the chapter yet either.

I was recently given some of my mother's 'ashes' which previously I had not wanted. My first thought was that I wished I had them that day I sat her invisibly in a chair to tell her what was on my mind, the same as I wished then she had a grave I could visit.
A sign that I think I'm done with her and the issues is that I had forgotten I had the ashes until just now, and had to think about where I put them!

One thing I will say about the effectiveness of this chapter is that now, when I feel angry, I can rationalize the feeling, judge it on a scale of 1-10, determine if it's real anger for the present infraction and what to do with it. So far, I've found it easy to deal with, and without reaching for food. Also, it's easier to recognize the cause of my moodiness, such as hormones, not feeling good, personal frustration, and nip it before I take it out on others around me.

dip

[Libra925]

Dip, congratulations! That's so exciting. I'm still searching for my "passion."

I was just reading through this thread again and re-acquainting myself with everyone. I've been MIA for a few months. The holidays were hard this last year.

Things still seem to be cropping up in my mind and feelings at a rate faster than I can handle. I'm back to step two in the book and don't know if I'll ever get past it. Just when I think I've "got it" something else floats to the surface. Oh, well, I guess I'm just a work in progress.

Marilyn

[diphthong]

Marilyn, I'm happy to see you back and tackling this again with us! Here's an idea. I found that before the book came out, I was already doing keys 3-7 from self-education. If Keys 1 and 2, especially 2 are stunting your growth, why not just incoporate the other keys in your life to get in the groove, and try to rework keys 1 and 2 as you go. I believe that if you stick with it, you will eventually connect with "what's eating you," and deal with it in an effective way to rid yourself of *all* the negative feelings. It's like peeling an onion layer by layer. I know that's what happened to me too. I thought I had hit on *it* but boom, something else would surface, until the root was exposed. Hang in there and visit over at the Dr. Phil AGAIN threads.

dip

[Mitchypoo]

This chapter is really hard for me and is why i fell behind last Fall also. I didn't even realize it at the time, when I started his book. I felt so confident and like, I CAN DO THIS! and then i read some things that made me look inward and i would get stuck and i don't think i've progressed past this chapter. I have read on, but i'm stuck here. Even now i don't want to revisit it. But i know i must. I know myself well enough to know that when i think i can't handle something i avoid it, i recognize myself doing it but can't move on. I really hate that i recognize this fault of mine. So what's it gonna take to get me in gear? Another 20#'s?

[Jo_Pointer]

All I can say is, "me too!" You have all said exactly what is happening to me. This is the chapter I got hung up on last time, and it is still hard for me to get through. But instead of dropping out of the book club or putting the book away this time, I am determined to see it through.

I made serious efforts in my twenties to work through my issues with my alcoholic parents and the terrible things that happened in my childhood. I even saw a counselor for awhile because it was important to me that I: 1) not become an alcoholic myself, 2) not do to my children what was done to me, 3) forgive my parents, and 4) release my hurts so I can get on with my life. I honestly thought I had dealt with most all of it, but working through this book, and specifically, this chapter has brought up so many painful memories and emotions.

The trouble is...I am not willing to confront my parents with the memories and feelings that have been dredged up. I've already talked at length with them about what happened and how I feel about it. Rationally I understand that what they did (do) and who they are is a result of their illness and their weaknesses. I don't have a need to punish them for the choices they made (make) or the people they are. Yet I know I have to get these destructive feelings out of me. I completely accept that these harbored feelings and hurts are why I used to medicate myself with food whenever I felt stressed, sad, lonely, etc. I know that conquering this is the "key" to my moving past this negative behavior forever.

So, I'm going to do as Dip and Summer did, and I'm going to write them letters this weekend. I'm not going to hold back or censor myself, and I have no expectations about what I will find. I'm hoping that through this exercise I can find some peace.

I have to thank all of you for this safe haven, and for your honesty. Had you not risked it, I probably wouldn't have shared all that I have so far. Old, learned behavior to keep this hidden. Plus, I've never wanted to be perceived as a "victim," so I rarely share any of my personal history with anyone. Perhaps that has been part of my problem too. This sure beats $100/hour therapy! :)

Dip, I am so sorry that you had an emotionally bankrupt mother. I pity her for what she missed out on in not knowing you. The strides you have made and all that you have accomplished are truly inspirational!

Hugs to all of you!

Jo :wave:
------
205.2/197.0/135

The quality of my life is entirely in my hands.

[diphthong]

Michelle - Avoiding confrontation. I bet we all, or a good portion of us have this in common. You named it, you claimed it, so now all's that's left for you to do is find a way to release it. Why don't you tell us specifically what you are avoiding, or whom, and why? You need to let more out, and get out of denial. OK? *Talk* to us. We are here for you, but not in an invasive way.

Jo - I'll be thinking of you rhis weekend writing those letters, and I hope it flows, and flows and flows. Once it starts, the hours will seem like minutes. I can understand you're not wanting to confront your mother at this stage, and it's probably for the best. But for yourself, please take the time and have the courage. You might even find after you think you're done writing, more will surface. Try taking photos you may have of the people and set the photos in a chair and *let 'em have it.* No matter how you choose to do it, it will be emotionally and physically draining, but it's got to be done. If you can accomplish this task with *all* the people you have hurt you, you will feel relief at first and eventually the inner peace you seek. Forgiveness is a choice, and may not come immediately, if at all. It's OK if you choose not to forgive. The important thing is to let out all the negative feelings with the whys those feelings exist within your heart.

I admire everyone who has the courage to revisit this chapter and come back to face it again. We had all those people sign up in the beginning, and it seems after this chapter is when they folded. It's too bad because I think it really would have been interesting to see just how much we all have in common as far as ACOA, absent or unavailable parent(s), abusive siblings, molestation or worse, lonliness as children- whether we want to face it or live in denial the rest of our lives, there *is* a root cause of why food is our comfort of choice. Food is legal, easily available, inexpensive compared to alcohol or drugs, and something everyone has in their home. We think enough of ourselves not to drink or do drugs, but not enough of ourselves to overeat.

I have something else to add, but not until we are done with this key. It's a discovery I've made about myself in direct realtion to the food addicition.

Hugs to all, and I pray for your strength and courage.

dip

[Summerlover]

Well my friends, sorry I have been MIA, but school has been highly stressful and overwhelmingly busy. As of today, I'm off for a week, so I should be around more than usual.

I have so much to talk to all of you about. And, I will do so after I conquer chapter 5.

I love you all. Thank you for "getting me!"

I'm not alone after all.

Summer

[waterbaby]

I hope this thread isn't closed. I'd like to join in. I posted several months ago and put the book down and didn't finish.

I'm ready to finish and get myself where I need to be. I'm reading all the back posts and am amazed at the progress each of you has made. It gives me hope and fortitude.

More later!

[Summerlover]

Waterbaby, of course you are welcome to join us. We are a bit stalled right now. Chapter 5 is a real tough one...one that made some of us quit before...one that is just slowing some of us down.

I haven't had enough time to myself to address this chapter again. And, I'm a bit chicken to delve deep into myself again. Last time, I became quite emotional, and that is hard to be when you have a husband and young child who are very nosey and concerned.

I promise to post here again after rereading the chapter.

Again, welcome!

Summer

[Libra925]

Hi, Claire. I'm just now seriously going through Dr. Phil's book, too. Key two is a tough one. I've really been surprised at some of the things that are coming to the surface. There is a lot of anger inside of me that I have stuffed down through the years. I may be on this key for awhile.

It's nice to find someone on here from TN. I'm in AR and I notice most of the posters are from farther away.

Marilyn
293/287/260 bw/cw/first goal (May 16)

[Summerlover]

Well, I'm beginning to reread this chapter of chapters.

I took the stress test and scored 175, WAY OVER the significant stress score of 65. Am I an emotional eater? You bet I am.

DENIAL. I'm all over that! The way an anorexic sees a fat body in the mirror, I still see myself as the thin 25 year old. I know in my head that I am fat, but, I guess I don't want to admit it to myself. So, I wear baggy clothes and don't "think" I look as bad as I do. That is why photographs freak me out. They force me to see myself as I really am. The other way that I am in denial is about how being overweight negatively affects my health. I guess because I am in my thirties, I see heart problems as being far off. Heck, my dad abused his body with alcohol, cigarettes, and fattening food for many years until he started having heart trouble. By then, he was in his late fifties. And, since I've never smoked, and I hardly ever drink alcohol, I've always thought what happened to him wouldn't happen to me. I ignore the fact that I had my gallbladder out of course.

AUTOMATIC THOUGHTS. Oh there are lots of them too. Negative and hurtful comments from my childhood were believed, internalized, and are now repeated to myself without me hardly noticing. I can't spill something without hearing my mother scolding me in my head. When my DD makes a mistake, I purposely point out that "nobody is perfect," and it is okay to make mistakes. As I say it to her, I am reminding myself of it as well.

Remember, you respond not to what happens in the world, but instead to your interpretation of those events.

When you are accountable for your problems and for their solutions, you are an agent of change.

Do you need your weight as a coping mechanism? Are you self-sabotaging for some unapparent reason? Last night after reading this section which talks about a woman who was sexually abused and used her fat as a cocoon, I went to sleep. Well, I dreamed that I told a family member about what her husband had done to me when I was younger. In the dream, she believed me and supported me. It was a great dream. It made me feel like he hadn't won. I wear my fat like a thick down coat. Men don't leer at me. I like it that way. But if I stay fat, I am letting him win. He is still controlling me if I stay fat. I REFUSE TO GIVE THAT SCUM OF A MAN THAT KIND OF POWER OVER ME!

So, that is as far as I got. I will be back when I've done more work.

Summer

[diphthong]

Summer, I'd say you've made some tremendous progress so far. :grouphug: Again, we have much in common. I think the two things that made me face my denial, which was the same as yours, was to first publish my weight, then to publish my before and current, then progress photos. I'm not saying this is the best route to go for everybody, but it sure helped me face the denial and be accountable to myself to change and recreate myself.

dip

[Summerlover]

Dip, once you gave up the denial, how did you deal with the shame?

Summer

[diphthong]

Summer, my denial continued until I lost the first 50#. That's when I realized I had a bonafide case of distorted body image. I myself could not really see a difference as the pounds came off, although everyone around me did. And it was then that the real shame kicked in.

I deal with the shame every day. People tell me how great I look, or say something to the effect that I should be proud. Sure, I look great compared to *what* I looked like, and of course I feel healthy. But when I get compliments, it's a reality check and I will respond quite sincerely, "Thank you for noticing, and I do feel better on one hand, and not so good on the other." This will usually bring up *the* question, something like "what do you feel bad about?" And again, I am sincere, honest and truthful when I say I am ashamed. I am ashamed that I ever let myself gain that much weight, and carried it around for so many years. I am ashamed that I endangered my health, and didn't have enough sense to recognize and deal with it realistically. I find that people are very understanding, especially people who have only known me that big.

But in spite of the shame, there are so many benefits and joyful moments, that the shame gets easier. One thing I've learned through it all is how to take negatives and turn them into positives. So now when I look in the mirror, and the shame starts to rise, I just tell myself, "we gotta keep working on this." And I'll focus on how my bra size changed and I don't have dents in my shoulders anymore, or I can wear jeans comfortably,- anything positive about the change. Time certainly does heal, and in time, the shame becomes less and less.

I think you can't let yourself dwell on shame or any negative thinking. We've all done something in our lives that we are ashamed of, but we get over it, and after awhile we treat it as a life lesson. So I say, focus on "onward and downward" and move forward with a good support system in place. Treat this as a life lesson, never to be repeated because the consequences are too great, and if it happens again, it just might kill you.

Hope that helps.

dip

[Summerlover]

Thanks Dip. I knew I asked the right person.

I think somewhere during puberty I developed a feeling of shame about my body, when it was perfect and beautiful, because of the shameful way sex was introduced to me. (I was not raped or molested, but I was a victim of an attempted rape, and a family member continually threatened to hurt me sexually, would expose himself, and would spy on me in the bathroom and bedroom.) It seems that the shame I felt about my beautiful, healthy, developing body, was substituted for another kind of shame that developed as a result of becoming obese. This cocoon I have been protecting myself in has made me feel even more shame than before. And the irony is that I'm still not over the "original" shame that I felt as a teenager.

I want you to know that I wasn't even aware of this shame until today.

Now that I have identified it, I can deal with it.

Thanks again Dip!

Summer

[Summerlover]

I finished chapter 5. I HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE BONDAGE OF FEAR, SHAME, GUILT, AND OBESITY.

The first time around I dealt with my parents and being ACOA. It took hours of hysterical tears to get to the root of it, but I can honestly say, I put it to rest and forgave them.

After that I was a bit hesitant about delving deeply again. I was afraid of totally losing control.

Also, I think I felt that I didn't deserve to acknowledge what happened to me because I have friends who were raped. I was never raped. During my high school graduation party at our beach house (not chaperoned), a law student tried to rape me, got close, but didn't succeed. And during puberty up until I was married a family member (not a blood relative) would expose himself, and would spy on me when I was naked. He cut peepholes into walls and doors. He would walk in on me. He used any opportunity he could to humiliate me and embarrass me. I felt such terror never knowing if one of those times he would indeed rape me instead of just staring. I spent many sleepless nights waiting for my bedroom door to open. (He had a key to all of the locks in the house) I finally purchased a padlock for my bedroom. I never had peace in the bathroom...no soaking in a bubble bath for me...I would be a "sitting duck." He even tried something the night before my wedding.

Why didn't I do anything...tell someone? I didn't think anyone would believe me. And if they did, I figured they wouldn't do anything about it because he never actually raped me. I live in a family that KEEPS SECRETS, and anyone who tries to shine a light on the truth gets punished. We appear to be so normal, happy, and well-adjusted to the outside world. Also, I didn't want to be the one blamed for breaking up a marriage and family. And, again, I felt that what my friends had gone through was much more serious, and maybe I was being overly sensitive.

That didn't change the fact that I was terrified of him. He had caused me to loath my developing body. I felt guilt, shame, and fear. My beautiful body became a dirty thing to be covered up with layers and layers of fat.

This morning, after finishing the chapter, I wrote him a letter that will not be mailed.

I told him things I've been waiting to say for a very long time. It felt so great. This is the beginning of me releasing the bondage of shame, guilt, and fear. I no longer fear him. I will learn to be PROUD OF MY BODY. I can now look at my body and appreciate the beautiful things about it...and as I lose weight, uncover the beauty that has been hidden for so many years.

I had to forgive him for myself. Yes he is evil, and what he did to me was very damaging. But, if I don't forgive him, he will continue to control me. So, here and now, I FORGIVE THAT PIG. I release myself from all of the hell he put me through.

HE WILL NEVER HURT ME OR MINE AGAIN!!!

Summer :D

[Libra925]

Summer,

I had never thought about the shame aspect of my obesity, but I just realized after reading your and Dip's posts that it is very much part of me. I remember being around 5 or 6 and my mother catching me playing "doctor" with another little girl. She sat me in a room alone and said "now just THINK about what you were doing!!" I can remember the experience as clear as day! That was around the same time I was being abused by a neighborhood teenage boy. My, God, what an epiphany!! I can remember she always thought sex was involved whenever I went on a date. The irony is that I was still a virgin when I married! I'm going to have to do some more thinking about this shame issue. It's like it has just slapped me in the face and said WAKE UP!

Thank you so much for sharing.

Marilyn

[diphthong]

Amen, Summer. I hope your load gets lighter as each day passes.

Please let us know how you feel when you wake up tomorow morning.

Marilyn, kind of odd that things we had no clue about as children we were made to feel ashamed about, huh? I had a few of those myself.

dip

[Summerlover]

Well my friends, if you have not yet conquered chapter 5, it is time to jump right on in. Believe me, I know how hard this chapter is. And, I know how hard it is to get started on it. Not to mention that we all have hectic "please others" kind of lives. Take some time for yourself...you deserve it. If you can get through this chapter, the rest of the book will be gravy. Don't get stalled like I did last time around. Push forward and let's get some more chapter 5 postings on this thread. You can do it! :cheer: :cheer:

Summer ;)

[Libra925]

Summer and Dip,

I was talking to a dear friend yesterdy about this 'shame' issue. It really does stay with me. Sex seems to have been the boogie man for me in my formative years. I feel like I'm STILL going through my formative years. Maybe I'll make it all the way to becoming who I really am this time. I've lived my life being who everyone else thought I should be up to this point.

I may move on in the book, but I will continue to work Chapter 5. I'm going to write a letter to my mother (that won't be mailed) soon. My hands get really tired when I write so I'll have to find some uninterupted time here at work and type the letter.

Working Chapter 5 is a two edged sword. On one hand it feels crappy remembering all the stuff and on the other hand it feels great to finally be dealing with it. I'm the type of person that thinks she can handle anything if she knows what is going on (i.e. finances, health, relationships). I'm also a Libra and I second guess everything I do! I guess this is good since it does enable me to see why my mother did some of the things she did. I thinks it's ironic that she "damaged" me more than my alcoholic, physically abusive dad. The mental and emotional abuse I received from both of them still affects my opinion of myself.

Enough whining! Tomorrow is my WID. I hope I've lost some more weight. I haven't been on a particular plan, just cutting back on everything and I haven't had a FF or coke since February 10. I'm so proud of me!

Marilyn

[waterbaby]

I am dealing with some awful stuff, too. I tried dealing with it several years ago, and I think the denial was so huge that it blinded me to the fact that I haven't dealt with a few things. Abuse. Shame. Guilt. I stay fat so I don't get hurt. In fact, I'm hurting myself staying this way. Really is a two-edged sword. I'm so grateful you all are here. Maybe we can gently lift each other out of our respective morass.

[Jo_Pointer]

Good work and big hugs to you Summer and Marilyn, you are both so brave! :grouphug:

Welcome Claire!

This chapter has been a tough hurdle for me too. As I mentioned before, working this chapter was bringing up memories and feelings I thought I'd dealt with long ago, and I was surprised, disappointed, and frankly, depressed thinking that all the work I've done was in vain. The idea of revisting those emotions was repellent, but I knew it had to be done if I wanted to move on.

So I sat down to write a letter (not to mail) to my parents to get out what was in me. It wasn't a pleasant experience, truth be told. It was like picking scabs off of healing wounds, but I found out some very interesting things.

The most surprising thing I learned is that I'm really not all that angry at my parents anymore for what happened or the things they did when I was a kid. So I don't need to feel that my work in this area in my twenties was all for naught. This was a huge relief. I am terrifically disappointed in them, and I don't understand the choices they made (make), the things that they did (do), and at the end of the day I have very little respect for either of them. But I do love them, and they do have many good qualities. So I try to focus on those things in them that are good. It is a constant eggshell game that gets tedious and upsetting at times, but the alternative is to not have them in my life (and my son's life), which is not an option I want. I honestly feel that I've made as much peace as I can with them.

What I found out by doing this exercise is that the underlying feelings/emotions that are "eating me" really have little to do with what my parents did (do). They have more to do with my reactions to them and my faulty belief systems. The biggest being my feelings of inadequacy and unworthiness. This may not seem earth shattering, but it hit me upside the head. I really got it for the first time: only I have the ability to heal myself.

Dr. Phil:

...your interpretation of the event, not so much the event itself, is the real troublemaker that gets you so worked up. (page 89)

The events in your daily life have only the meaning you assign to them. This is why one of my life laws states: 'There is no reality, only perception.' How you interpret the events, circumstances, and situations in your life is entirely up to you. (page 92)

THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION

My brother and I were badly verbally abused by our alcoholic father, and the venom that he spewed sank in--VERY DEEP. I was called unspeakable names and treated so badly by him. My mother was completely co-dependent (and an ACOA herself--she has since become an alcoholic too), so she would vacillate back and forth between total denial and co-alcoholism.

I started medicating with food at age 9, which, no surprise, is when the you-know-what hit the fan at home. Failed business dealings and the death of his own father led my father into an abyss of self-loathing and alcoholism that he has never really emerged from. To deal with his pain or so he wouldn't feel completely worthless he needed to use my mother, brother and I as verbal punching bags. I became a lonely, sad kid who found comfort in ice cream, pizza, potato chips, etc.

I learned not to believe/trust people, because my parents would continually promise things (not to drink again, not to hurt us again) and would never keep their promises. I came to believe that the terrible things that my dad said were true, and worse, that the anger, craziness, saddness, chaos and discord was somehow my fault. I learned to internalize my pain and keep things to myself. Also, there was shame attached because I felt responsible for the ugliness, so I became adept at keeping "the big elephants" in my life a secret. I also learned that most people don't really care about you or your problems. When asked, "how are you?", I was always, "fine." In general I am wary of intimate relationships, and I don't let many people in. Except for my best friend and husband, none of my friends know much about me or my life. You wonderful people know more about me than most everyone who knows me! I think subconciously I felt like there wasn't much to like about me.

So I was "chubby" but not fat until age 16, when I thinned out. I was a good student, although I was quiet and somewhat withdrawn. I made several "cries for help" in junior high (skipping school, shoplifting), but because my grades were good and I was quiet, no one paid any attention. I remember feeling invisible a lot of the time. At 16 I left home for a few months (after a horrible argument in which my mother said she wished I was never born!), turned to boys, cigarettes and recreational drugs/drinking, and for the first time in my life I realized that I wasn't as bad as my dad said I was. I was on a pretty destructive path and running away from my pain. Some truly terrible, awful things happened to me between age 16-19 with my parents, and then my boyfriend (whom I lived with) committed suicide.

My parents got me in counseling (thankfully) right away, because they were afraid I might kill myself too. But interestingly enough, the counselor wanted me to talk more about my alcoholic father than my dead boyfriend. I resented the hell out of this at the time, but he planted seeds that would be helpful to me down the road.

For the first time since I was a kid, I turned to food to ease my pain instead of cigarettes, liquor or men. For the next 10 years I would lose and gain the same 30 pounds every time stress got too much to handle, or things went sour in my life. As I've said, I spent a lot of my twenties "dealing" with my childhood and trying to heal. I confronted my parents, verbally duked it out with them at times, read up on alcoholism and adult children of alcoholics, saw counselors, and did a lot of crying. During that time many good things happened to me: I moved out on my own, finished high school, put myself through community college, quit smoking, met some nice boyfriends and ultimately my soul mate, moved to California, got married, excelled professionally, and then became a parent myself. But I never learned how to deal with the pain and sadness I carry or how to relieve my stress in constructive and healthful ways. I remain mistrustful and feel resentful and hurt too much of the time. My 30 pound struggle became a 70 pound struggle.

So with Dr. Phil's help--and yours--I now know that the key to overcoming this is to heal my feelings and reclaim emotional control of my life. I need to keep challenging the old, negative thoughts while reinforcing the truth: I am worthy, I have value, and there are people that really love me for who I am. (I know, I know it sounds like Stuart Smalley (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/snlcn/franken/stuart.html) but it's TRUE! :lol: )

Dr. Phil:

The most important choice you have in light of a personal tragedy is what you do now. The past is over. The future hasn't happened yet. The only time is now. (page 92)

One of the most critical ways to stop this behavior is to change the way you think and how you interpret events in your life. What you think determines how you feel. So if you want to change your feelings about something--and the negative behavior that flows from those feelings--then you must change and reshape the thought patterns that are making you sad, anxious, lonely, or depressed. (page 88)

So I am going to keep working on Key 1 and Key 2 until I get them right. I don't think I'm there yet, but I can honestly say I'm not stuck here anymore either. I feel liberated and back on track! Meanwhile I am doing well on WW and am losing pounds I will never regain.

I have to say how fortunate I feel to have a husband who knows everything that has happened to me and loves me through the tough times and the pain. He has been so supportive of my efforts and has listened to my stories and held me as I cried and released some of the ick. And I am blessed with a beautiful, amazing son who is the light of my life. I want to be a whole healed person for them as well as for myself.

I am also so incredibly thankful for this site, this forum and for all of you.

I wish you all peace,

Jo :wave:
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Do not give up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

[Summerlover]

WOW...what a courageous group of women we are. I'm so glad we are conquering our demons together. All of you, FEEL A BIG HUG...

Jo, have you ever attended an AL ANON meeting? I used to go when I was in a much worse place in my life. It was really helpful. Now when I need some help, I pick up the little book I got from Al Anon, search the index for what I am going through, and read it. It helps me a lot.

This chapter was tough, but I feel like we are a PHOENIX RISING FROM THE FLAMES. We had to face down the hell that got us where we are. Now it is time to move on and heal.

I'm ready to heal.

I'm ready to discover the me I'm supposed to be. The me my Creator intended me to be.

I can't wait!

Summer

[Jo_Pointer]

Summer,

I have never been to an Al Anon meeting, although I've thought about it numerous times. I just told my husband a few days ago that I think it might be good for me.

Part of the reason I haven't gone is the shame I feel about it and some twisted sense of loyalty to my parents not to tell "our secret." That is why I told my story here--I think "confessing" is partly what I need to do to release this.

Thank you for your suggestion, it is the extra nudge I needed. I will call for more information on local meetings tomorrow.

Hugs,

Jo :wave:

[diphthong]

Jo,

I'm sitting here with the chills and awe after reading your post twice. I have gotten up from the computer 3 times and walked around, just totally blown away. Your quotes from the book also made me realize I should be rereading this chapter daily for reinforcement. In fact, I am writing your quotes on index cards right now to have handy, because no matter how much I *think* I've got it together, I don't, not toally, not yet. Thank you for the enlightenment. I pray that anybody who reads your post sees the work within themself that needs to be examined. And the biggest cyber hug I can send is surounding you when you read this.

Summer, I'm going to dig out my little book too and start using it again, and go to the local meeting tomorow night. I probably never should have stopped going because I've known in my heart, it was those meetings that I started last March 19 that helped me start my weight loss journey and put the focus back on me.

Digging deeper and going back further is hard. Some times it's the obvious things we choose to look at, and want to automatically blame. My first impulse was to blame an incident I wrote about when we first started the Dr. Phil book last time. I was brutally beaten, raped and sodomized when I was 17 by a boy I knew since the 2nd grade. Last week, I thought about that incident a little deeper and how I reacted at the time. First of all, my feelings were hurt because someone I had known all those years could do something so horrible like that to me. I didn't blame myself, even at 17 and knew it was him, not me, even though I shouldn't have been where I was at the time it happened. What effected me most about the incident was my older brother's reaction. He was a cop, and when I went to the local police station to report it, the desk sargent was another friend's father. He called my brother's station, and he came over. When my brother got there and heard the story, his reaction was to put the blame on me, how it all would embarrass and shame my mother if it went to trial, and not one iota of concern for my physical or mental condition. He told me to go home, get cleaned up and forget about it. When Mom asked about the bruises and black eyes, just to say I got in a fight with some girl and lost. (I never got into a fist fight in my life.) I was in shock for a few days and I suppose if I hadn't been, I wouldn't have heeded his advice. It was at this time that confirmed for me that my brother was an as*hole, and when I tried to cut him out of my life. I did clean up somewhat, (drinking and drugs) and got on with my life but carried the message that I was even more worthless that someone I knew could do that to me, and that sparing any embarrassment to the family was more important than what had happened to me. But I did continue to fall back on, from time to time, drinking and drugs. Cigarettes have been a constant since age 15.

Has anybody ever gained "happy fat?" The reason I ask is that not long after the rape incident, I met a pretty decent guy to whom I eventually became engaged, but screwed it up. Anyway, I was so in love and so happy after dating him for 6 months or so, I gained about 20 pounds. (I was still thin then.) And lost it. When I was 19, I was in a bad car accident that ultimately put an end to any kind of physical activity for several years. I met my first husband when I was 21, put on some more "happy fat." It was when I became pregnant at 22 that I put on 80 pounds, and went up and down from there, but never got below 185. (I knew then and I know now why I allowed myself to gain all that weight with pregnancy, after the happy fat - my first husband was extremely jealous and I did it to thwart off *any* male attention.) When I met 2nd and current husband, (age 39) I weighed about 190, and immediately put on more "happy fat." That happy fat turned into something else because I gained another 50 or so over 10 years. This is where the eating to shove down the anger and negative emotions started. I was so determined to make this marriage work, that I tried to shove down the unpleasant times with food. And it was why that I had to dig deep, through the help of Key 2, to find out why and when I chose this behavior.

So working this with you all is such a big help for me too. :grouphug: I love you all for your courage.

Lastly, I wanted to share that since I have been working on my food addiction, I have been wanting to clean up all my other addictions such as cigarettes and the impulse to shop or spend money. I wrote about this a while back at the Maintainer's Forum, because I wondered if anyone who has been maintaining had gone through it too. The desire to totally clean up just kind of came naturally after getting a handle on the food.
http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35831

Thanks for being there, you guys, and listening to my 'confessions.' You have no idea how much you all have helped me to continue to make every new day better.

dip

[Libra925]

Jo, thank you so much for sharing with us. I almost feel "guilty" for being here. My experiences haven't been nearly as shattering as the ones being shared.

The sharing here is, however, making me more aware of the impact my past life has had on me. I have to retract what I said about going ahead with the book and simply continuing to work on Key 2. I'm not going anywhere until I resolve some of this history. It's so comforting to read your stories and know that I'm not crazy for feeling like I do. I think guilt is more of a problem with me than shame. My mother taught me how to feel guilt. No one did (or does) it better than she does. Have you ever heard the phrase "guilt is the only gift that keeps on giving?" So true.

It's so wonderful, Jo, that your husband is so supportive and loving. I was married almost 36 years and I don't think my husband ever really grasped what I was going through. I pray that someday a man will come into my life that will be a true partner, friend, and will love me. I'm struggling to be patient with this. I really think I have a lot of "inside" work to do before I can be the kind of partner I need to be. It'll happen when the time is right.

Thank you for being here ladies. You're awesome.

Marilyn
292/286/260 SW/CW/Mother's Day

[waterbaby]

I have much in common with you, and much work yet to do. My abuse was mostly verbal and emotional. My ex-husband was an alcoholic and is still a s*x addict; it ruined our marriage. My current husband is -- well, who he is. He is gentle, kind and gets frustrated with himself. We live more like roommates than spouses and much of it has to do with my extreme weight. We butt heads, but I think he's learning about himself, too. I'll divulge more as I get more comfortable here. You all have given me courage, and this chapter feels like having a grain of sand under one's bathing suit -- nothing will do until that sand is outta there! :D

Thanks for the hugs, too --

[Libra925]

Claire, I'm glad you're here. It's not easy for me to open up as a rule, but there is so much love and support here that it's becoming easier. We all do things in our own time and I hope you continue to feel comfortable here.

I understand about the sex addiction. My divorce lawyer told me that was what my ex is even though I had not thought of him that way. His drug of choice was strip clubs, several times a week. I stayed for three years of his new hobby, waiting until I knew he was home safe (usually around 2 a.m. closing time of the club) before I could sleep. Needless to say, this was a stressful time. My lawyer said if we had a computer, he probably would have been on it, too. Anyway, I do understand. It made my self esteem drop even lower knowing he was enjoying watching 18 - 25 year olds take off their clothes and dance with a pole.

(((((More Hugs))))
Marilyn

[Jo_Pointer]

WOW...what a courageous group of women we are. I'm so glad we are conquering our demons together. All of you, FEEL A BIG HUG...

I couldn't have said it better myself, Summer!!

Dip--thank you for sharing more of your life story. With each "layer" you open up and release you are lessening your burden as well as inspiring others. As always, you amaze me. :thanks:

I am trying to clean up other areas of my life too--namely clearing my clutter! I'm a terrible pack-rat. I have trouble "letting go" of almost anything and I have a tendency to attach emotions to things. I've been working on the principles of Feng Shui for a couple of years now, and have made good strides, but I have a LONG WAY to go. I have piles of :censored: everywhere--magazines & newspapers I want to read but haven't had time to, items I want to sell on eBay, items needing minor repair, craft projects I want to work on, etc. Living like this has such negative energy, so I endeavor DAILY to just let go. God help me, I don't want to be the little old woman who can hardly move in her house because of all of her "stuff!" :yikes:

Marilyn--please don't feel guilty for being here. We all have our own emotional pain to work through--your pain is no less real than anyone elses. BTW, I was raised as a Catholic, so I totally understand what you say about guilt! :rolleyes:

Claire--I LOVED your analogy of this chapter being like a grain of sand under one's bathing suit!! So true! Give yourself permission to take your time with this. Many of us started this back in September but got stuck and then just gave up. Thankfully Summer started this back up again in January. Please hang in there with us! :grouphug:

Summer--I'm going to an Al-Anon meeting on Saturday specifically for Women ACOA. I'm nervous...wish me luck! :crossed:

Full of gratitude,

Jo :wave:
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Do not give up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

[Summerlover]

I'm so blown away by all of you. I feel like we have known each other forever. I have shared things with you that my closest friends don't even know about...and let me tell you, I love to talk. I have always been very open. I have always had a BIG MOUTH. I think that it has saved me from doing more damage to myself. My sister is an uptight WASP who has enough secrets to write a series of novels. My brother just doesn't want to get involved, keeps his mouth shut, and doesn't want to hear anything controversial. So, I open up to friends and coworkers. But with all of you, it is easier because we have so much in common. I have lived through so many of the things you mention. I'm just grateful that I have all of you. This may actually be my first real chance of getting healthy. Thank you all!

By the way, yes, I have put on happy fat. I was about 40 pounds overweight when I got pregnant. It took three years, a couple of operations, hormone shots, and in vitro fertilization to conceive my daughter. The last 30 pounds I gained was the happiest fat you've ever seen!!!

Summer

[toothfairee]

Hi Everyone,

I am here on the recommendation of Dip, I have to go to bed soon and I just wanted to say a quick hi and thanks for sharing.

I go to Al-Anon meetings sometimes and a women's ACOA meeting occasionally, it is absolutely incredible, I recommend it to anyone.

I want to catch up with the book with you all, I have the same issues, I just can't identify the underlying stuff. I wish I could cry and lose control and get it all out. It is buried somewhere.

I'll be back later.

Tracy

[Libra925]

Tracy, welcome! You're in a very good place.

Summer, I smiled when I read about your "happy fat." My husband and I tried for three years to get pregnant when it finally happened. I remember the joy I felt. I have three wonderful daughters, all grown now, that gave me the three happiest periods of my life.

Marilyn

[waterbaby]

As a result of a selfish ex, I didn't get the opportunity to have children of my own. My DH has a wonderful son and I'm now a step-grandma (at 51, that's WAY too young!)

I gained up to 260 pounds with my ex. The more he acted out, the more I ate. After he left, I was despondent and lost like 70 pounds in six months. Then I started going out with friends bowling every week and the weight started creeping back on. When I married again, I weighed 240. Now I'm up to 304 and (well, I'm on the way back DOWN, actually) and am finding every day some little "something" that triggers me to eat the wrong thing.

(sigh)...it's a long trip, but I'm going to make it!! Hugs to all here; WE'RE all going to make it. I also feel like I've known everyone forever. scary and cool at the same time!

Stay strong, friends. It's not about events, but how we remember them and still react!

[toothfairee]

Hi
You are all awesome. Thanks for the 22 reasons, great stuff.

I have been reading Dr. Phil's book and I relate to alot of the stuff he talks about I just don't know how to actually apply it to my life. I will keep reading. I have frustration thinking, all-or-nothing thinking, etc. etc.

Lately, I have noticed that I must be an angry person too because I cuss people out in traffic under my breath. I don't think an unangry person needs to always do that.

Anyway, more later
Tracy

[Summerlover]

How is everyone doing? Are we ready to move on to chapter 6? Let us know. I don't mind waiting, but I also don't want us to get stuck in a "holding pattern."

Summer

[diphthong]

Summer, how about we just keep this chapter/key open, and move on to CHapter6-Key 3 on Sunday?

dip

[Summerlover]

Dip, that sounds like the perfect solution. I have a lot to say about chapter 6, so I hope there will be others with input also.

Summer

[Jo_Pointer]

Hi all,

Just wanted to thank you again for all of your support. You don't know it, but you are touching and affecting my life daily.

I went to my first Al-Anon meeting this morning. :cp: It was a little scary and very overwhelming, but it was a good (and necessary) first step. I met a couple of very nice and supportive people, and although it all seems weird and foreign to me, I think this may prove to be very helpful. The meeting I chose was specifically for Women ACOA, and many of the things these ladies shared resonated with me. A few of the items they shared startled me, and I realized that the introspection and self-analysis that will be involved in this "recovery" will not always be easy or comfortable.

I am terrified and at the same time excited. I'm being gentle with myself and putting my needs first for the first time in a long while.

Bring on Chapter 6!

And welcome Tracy!

Jo :wave:
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205.2/192.8/135

The past is over. The future hasn't happened yet. The only time is now. -- Dr. Phil McGraw

[Summerlover]

Jo,

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Summer

[diphthong]

Jo,

That's great news! I remember my first meeting, and it was scary and the folks were reassuring at the same time. I sat quiet for several meetings just listening to what they had to say. I sincerely hope you will give it a chance, and remember you are among friends who are there to support you. (hugs)

I went ahead and started the thread for the next chapter, a No Fail Environment.

I had somewhat of a revelation myself on Friday, but was getting ready to go out of town so I waited to post about it. I was eliminating clutter (I save all kinds of crap) and found a box with a book, and some old journals dating back to 1991. I sat down and read the journals, which if I hadn't had seen the dates, would have sworn that I wrote them since working Key 2. The name of the book is WHEN FOOD IS LOVE, which was a sequal to FEEDING THE HUNGRY HEART by Geneen Roth. I vaguely remember both of these books, at the time, having an impact on me. Just like my Dr. Phil book, When Food is Love is full of yellow and pink highlighter. I read the high-lighted paragraphs and had to wonder why, if I *got it* over 10 years ago, didn't I do something about it, and actually let myself get heavier? Thinking back to what was going on in my life at the time, the answer is the usual behavior I learned from the emotional neglect I suffered as a child had such a hold on me, I culdn't or wouldn't break it because it was what I knew best. I let myself be too busy with fulfilling other people's needs before my own. I didn't take the time for myself to heal myself properly. I knocked myself out trying to please other people for some kind of recognition that those same people had no clue I was seeking. I didn't have a clue I was seeking it, either. And I wasted yet another 12 years, added another 50# and allowed myself to be consumed by anger and rage because my own needs, whom nobody but myself could fulfill, weren't being met. I was the invisible child who became the invisible adult.

dip

[da fat n da furious]

Hi Everyone,
When does the next beginning start? I bought the book 3 months ago,,,been a great paperweight since...*sigh I will read it.
I did read a few of your posts, and feel connected with many of you..how strange how that is.
Angie

[diphthong]

Angie, you will probably find you feel even more connected to many of us if you read the book and more of the posts. There's a reason for that and it isn't just coincidence.

You can catch up on your reading, and always come back and post. From my own research and self-education before beginning my own journey, I was already doing Keys 3-7 before Dr. Phil's book came out. You can start with Key 3 while we discuss it, and always come back to Keys 1 and 2. All 7 keys need to be worked in unison, though over the long-haul to avoid failure.

dip

[DeenieD]

This chapter had a great impact on me. I know I have eaten to fulfill lots of needs - and to combat lots of stress.
Funny here I am at 50 and still cringe at some of the things my mom says to me. (she is 100 lbs wringing wet). She is so obsessed with weight - not only her own, but everyone around her. She was ultra controlling too - When I really think back I know I often thought of her when pigging out (as if that was smart - LOL) but I know it was sort of "you can't stop me"

I hope that I can learn (if we still can at 50) how to be most in control of myself, happy with myself and doing what is best for me and still learn how to deal with those who subconciously sabatoge me

[diphthong]

Deenie, it's never too late to change and regain your health. Keep in mind, this is not about anyone but you, and how you react to people, feelings and situations. You can't control others, but you can control you. Dr. Phil helps us become aware of why and how we automatically react, or do the things we do.

I am almost 52, after almost 30 years of obesity. It can be done; it just takes awareness,

dip

[Angel26519]

Hi Guys!

Here is the Board for Key Two: Healing Feelings

This one is a big one for me.

Review posts:

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32851

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36381

Ready - Set - Start Chatting! :) :) :)

[MistySeptember]

This key has been hard for me. As you may or may not know from my previous posts alot of the reasons why I am here in the first palce is my father's crazy relationship with food and his forced exercise regimines. But I have come to understand that is how I got here but that is not why I stayed here.

I completed the audit on emotional eating and found I was more of an emotional eater than I thought I was. That was very interesting. I used to engage in "brainless" eating, which I guess is considered emotional eating. But since starting in September I have curbed this alot and I think I have it well under control. I no longer rummage through cupboards repeatedley looking for a snack when I have nothing better to do. I often come here or now with two babies under two, I just don't have time to rummage through cupboards.

As I suspected I have very little stress. According to the stress audit my score was 30. I can completley agree with that. I have the usual marital strains the rear up, and taking care of kids isn't always fun and games, but in the big scheme of things my life is going well.

I enjoyed the discussion on filters. It was inetresting to note that denial is filter just like any other. We are given permission to feel our feelings, we are not encouraged to sugar coat them or repress them. But we are given tools to cope with them in a way that will not sabotage our weight loss efforts. I like that. Dr. Phil outlines the steps to regain emotional control. Step one was pretty straight forward to me. Step two: resolve rather than react has been a bit harder. I have , in the past, tended to allow others to solve my problems. It stems from never being allowed to make descions on my own while growing up. I had no choices as a child, teen or even a young adult. It is also difficult for me to slow down my thinking as it says to in step 3. Step four: Challenge and restructure your automatic thoughts is also something I am working on. These are "automatic" thoughts, it's difficult to stop and anylize them. I am however working on it.

Step five. This is a big one isn't it? But I think I have come to terms and gained emotional closure. I no longer have anger towards my parents, I don't say it's ok what I went through, but I don't resent them and hold anger towards them. I don't really know my birth mother, she was a drug addict and left when I was 3. Her choices shaped my life. I don't resent, hate or hold anger towards her b/c of that. It's a fact, it happened, it's not ok, but I am not investing my emotions in it. I forgive her.

I have really learned in the past 3 montsh or so to cope with the bordom I feel without food. Like I said I no longer go looking for food as something to do. I don't cry into icecream. As a family we do still however celebrate with food. I am learning to enjoy the company, and even enjoy the food, but to know where my limits lie.

I have learned alot in this cahpter about myself and about my childhood. I could go on for days, but I think this is enough lol.

[Jen]

I don't think that I have much to offer with this key because I can't say that I feel bad about myself in general or about how I eat. Yes I get upset with myself that I've let my weight get out of control and ruin my body. Yes I hate the way I look most of the time. I don't think that I hate myself though or have low self esteem or any deep emotional problems. I am a little depressed at time and of course I could be so deep in denial about everything that I can't see the forest for the trees but I really don't think that is the case. I've never binged or eaten out of anger or sadness or some other emotion. I eat a lot because I am bored, it is something to do and I eat a lot out of habit ie when I am reading or watching tv I seem to need to be eating at the same time. To me this is thoughtless eating and in my honest opinion it is not emotional eating. But that may be different for others. So I need to gain control over this kind of eating, mostly just being aware of what I am doing and why I am doing it and realizing that I am not hungry so I shouldn't eat.

[beck_in_oz]

I was just wondering if anyone out there feels the same as me on this one, I really dont know that well how to work on the MER thing coz I feel so overwhelmed when I think about it. There seems to be such a huge list of small to big things which really are in need for me to deal with. I have no idea where to start with them and because of that once i read the chapter i kinda left it in the back of my mind, not being dealt with. I have been thinkin of gettin a councellor but that + a gym membership + expensive food is all starting to become very expensive for a uni student....