InsideMe - oh yes, that ludicrous notion that you can only be attracted to your own gender if you fulfil certain stylistic expectations. I've always had long hair and a Bosom, and in my student days often wandered around in skirts and make-up. I got a certain amount of nonsense about that. You should see my ex-girlfriend, who is thoroughly and definitely gay, she's far girlier than me. (Her Bosom is of equal magnitude.) Has anyone worked out how bisexuals are meant to dress? The women at least, the men mostly seem to be in hiding. Although one random observation: isn't it odd how some straight people assume that long-haired men must be gay, presumably on the thinking that long hair = effeminate = gay man? Has anyone ever met a long-haired gay man? Bi men, yes, straight men, oodles, gay men, never, in my experience. They're all in crew cuts.
Another random question: you know how some straight couples will not let each other have opposite-sex friends Just In Case? I find this completely incomprehensible, as does my (also bi) partner. I thought maybe it was an older generation thing, but a friend of mine who's only 25 was round for lunch yesterday and was telling me all about how she and her mutually adoring husband have agreed not to have opposite-sex friends, at least not to the extent of such intimacies as having lunch with them. Ironically, at this very moment my partner was out getting all hot and sweaty with another woman...playing badminton. Anyway, is this a straight thing? It makes no sense to me as a bi woman, because I wouldn't be allowed any friends at all under those rules. Perhaps I would be allowed friends as long as they came with a certificate of authenticity proving that they were not remotely attracted to women?! Or am I just being naive about how other couples function? It seems like a surprisingly high level of jealousy to me.
True Blood: hmm, Pam generally looks hotter, I reckon, but Eric can also be fairly hot, especially once he cut his hair. (I'm often a fan of long hair on blokes, but it really didn't work for him.) He has a certain puppyish appeal going at the moment which is great fun.
AND PAM'S FACE! NOOOOO! It was funny, we were mainly being side-tracked by yet another of her breathtaking outfits, and my other half was merrily telling me that he finds that sort of thing very attractive and would love to see me in something similar, along with a general discussion of how much PVC and the like she wears, and then next thing we knew Fiona Shaw was cursing her face off and it is just Not Allowed! I mean, Pam is fabulous, and she principally demonstrates this fabulosity by how she looks! (Yes, shallow, I know, but this is True Blood we're talking about. Even the woman I know who sometimes lectures on it, and who has commented that, "I am uniquely fortunate in being able to use the phrase 'inbred meth-dealing werepanthers' in a professional setting," mainly appreciates it for its total daftness.) There's a good chance they'll reverse it, I hope. It's like the rule that no ever really gets killed in sci-fi. OK, they can get killed, but they're just as likely to get magically returned to life one way or the other.
Haha, Esofia - you must be right about Pam. I mean, she and Eric are super important for the viewers because of their hot vampire looks. No way they'd kill that for a long time.
About the straight couples + friends thing, it depends. Lots of my female friends have male friends even though they are in a relationship. Though, not a lot. A while ago I was having dinner with a good friend, a guy, and he's in a relationship right now. And we were like "if I wasn't gay, you'd have to explain so much to your girlfriend". LOL. It's just weird how people don't just trust eachother. I mean, if you dont - then why are you in a relationship? However - I think it's also just culture. Girls talking amongst themselves will inquire if they have seen one of the BF's with another girl somewhere. They'll start all sorts of gossip and their mind immediately goes to the gutter. So the GF in question can't do anything other than confront het BF about it and make a fuss.
Ah, I'm so glad I'm single. Because lesbian drama can be just as huge. LOL.
Maybe I don't get it because I went to a single-sex school during which the longest relationship I had (with a bloke, I was firmly closeted at the time) was three months, and then plunged straight into the heart of the uni LGBT community at uni, so that not that many of my male friends have ever been straight? Really, you don't know fun until you have been belting out a Mozart love duet at the piano with a gay man and lots of camping it up. And my best friend is a gay man (actually, I once had to tell him, "[Name], I've got something to confess. I've been playing the Schubert with another man." My duet partners have almost always been gay men, apart from that one time I tried singing with a straight boy and he was all inhibited and staid), so I'm not really experienced in the whole exclusive-friendship-with-straight-women thing.
Originally Posted by philana
Girls talking amongst themselves will inquire if they have seen one of the BF's with another girl somewhere. They'll start all sorts of gossip and their mind immediately goes to the gutter. So the GF in question can't do anything other than confront het BF about it and make a fuss.
Do adults really do this? I totally missed out on that and always have, it seems. The ONE time I went to the loo to gossip with a friend was when three of us, all friends since we were five, went to the theatre, and while sitting in a cafe beforehand, my best friend (male) came out to the other friend (female). She quickly grabbed me and rushed to the loo to say, "Did I react OK? Did I react OK?" I didn't have the heart to say, "Yes, and by the way, I'm a raving bisexual too!"
Originally Posted by philana
Ah, I'm so glad I'm single. Because lesbian drama can be just as huge. LOL.
I've just started watching The L Word, and isn't there a line in it along the lines of, "Lesbians just think friendship is another word for foreplay"? Having been involved in a nice little lesbian tangle of my own, involving a good friend where we fancied each other but should never have tried a relationship...yep, I know what you mean.
I've found that the people who are most sensible about relationship boundaries and jealousy are the poly folks. I'm monogamous myself, but I've learnt a surprising amount from the alt.polyamory FAQ, for instance. I think that's the article that inspired me to sit down with my partner shortly after we got together and have a good chat about how we both feel about monogamy, what it means to us, that sort of thing.
Mya - OK, you're right, the between-legs bit does matter in the context of a sexual relationship. Arghh, this is so hard to explain. It's a fun bit, but it no more makes a difference to me which category it falls into than it matters what colour the person's hair is. I do find that the chemistry tends to be a bit different with men than it does with women, and that I more often find women physically attractive and more often have that chemistry with men, but I reckon that's because we have this social construct of women being the ones who are looked at, with more revealing clothing and so forth, and because unless you live in the lesbian community (which I don't), you are going to run into far more men-attracted-towards-women than you are going to find women-attracted-towards-women. It's just that there are so many factors governing attraction towards someone, including whether they are someone who is attracted to your gender (positing a binary gender system for the moment, and also acknowledging that some people do keep falling tragically for folks who aren't attracted to their gender), and their gender isn't really a factor for me. It reminds me of the way that, erm, some gender theorist (Valerie Traub?) says that it really is quite arbitrary to divide people up based on which gender they're attracted to, you could as well divide them up based on whether or not they can roll their tongue. Which I don't entirely agree with, tongue-rolling is of no social significance whereas relationships are, but she does have a certain point. And it's not as if humans are free from the problem of dividing people up in a way that is totally unnecessary, such as racism.
Esofia....I know everyone thinks I'm straight, men always hit on me and I don't know if it's because I don't give them the slightest bit of attention so they get interested....and then when I say I'm gay they LAUGH at me and say I don't look like a dyke....my girlfriend is very obviously gay, she's very androgenus/sporty boyish dyke, it's like we are all suppose to follow a label and follow it? I dress how I like and yeah I love my heels and makeup but that doesn't mean I'm straight! LOL too funny how unaware people are!
ETA: Yeah lesbian drama is what comes with the territory......back in Jan my girlfriend and I split, a friend from our group tried to get really close to me, giving me emotional support etc....but when I got back with my GF she ditched the group and now talks crap about all of us......whatever......and that's just minor! I admit I have some mini crushes on a couple girls we all hang with.....It's such a fine line between friends/closeness and then that attraction....
Helloooo I know it has been quiet in here I've been checking it regularly too. So how has the summer been for you gals? I can't believe Sept is here and fall is coming. It's making me look at getting a gym membership to change my workout scenery and I'm hoping I'll be down enough by the time the snow flies to feel confident enough to go to a gym.....how have you gals been?
Queer woman here, happily partnered with a transman.
Inside Me, I know how you feel about not being quite confident enough yet to go work out in a gym. I've been trying to just go for walks/runs outdoors, although I suppose the gym will start looking like a better option once it gets cold out...
IM, go get that gym membership if you think it'll help! I go to a gym in the mornings which has been my saving grace- I actually go! Haha. The scariest part is signing up because I always build it up in my head to be a bunch of scary meatheads laughing at me behind my back as they take my money and assume I won't actually use their services. Turns out that the people there are perfectly nice and I'm not intimidated at all, actually I've belonged to probably 5 or 6 different gyms and I've never had a bad experience. Go for it!
Ok ok I JOINED!!! LOL I had a 3 week plateau that was killing me and I'm like screw this!!! I also got a personal training to help me break through that wall and FINALLY saw a 2lbs loss this week Thanks girls, yeah I guess it's all perception, we see what we want to see right, especially when you feel insecure....I just wish my personal trainer was a hot lady haha
Bi-sexual with a girlfriend saying HELLO from Virginia!
On the topic of bi-sexual appearance: I dress depending on my mood. Sometimes I will look like a tomboy with jeans and a tee; and sometimes I will dress up with feminine clothes and make-up. My hair is currently short and shaggy, but I have been known to dye it and let it grow very long. So, I don't think bisexuals really have a "look" per-say.
Anyway, I'm a proud pansexual and/or queer chick residing in Southern California, where it seems like everyone in the LGBT community is either a thin high femme, a skinny twinkish gay boy, or a ripped muscle man type. Some diversity, but always thin, and often rude or outright nasty to not-so-thin tomboyish queer punx like me. : /
My experience with this group is completely different and this is not what I've seen in the SoCal community of LGBT folks. Maybe there are other groups that don't intersect socially. Maybe it's just that those from the community that I am familiar with are in academia. I've seen a whole lot of diversity here, myself. Additionally, I've heard lot of discussion about body acceptance. LA does cater to the movie-star types and there's an extreme body consciousness around here which probably skews the majority, however, I know there are quite a lot of folks here who don't fit your assessment, which is why I think there might just be lots of non-intersecting groups. Maybe you should try attending some of the academic events that are marketed or geared toward the LGBT community where you can both hear some great research and meet people who might have opinions and ideologies in common with you.
I was raised in London, though I fled for Scotland at 18 and have stayed here ever since.
Random question: you know how bisexuals will sometimes say "I'm not interested in the person's gender/what's between their legs, I fall in love with their personality"? I've said it myself in the past, usually when having to justify myself to someone who is being unpleasant about bisexuality. It was pointed out on the previous LGBT thread that this is actually not a very nice thing to say, because it's basically a put-down of everyone who's not bisexual. Can anyone think of a way of getting across that general point without being unpleasant about it?
I love Scotland. My estranged husband is from there and I've spent some time time there. Yay to you for being in a lovely place!
I can see why people would take that as an "insult", because it's almost like taking the moral high ground, in a way, like one is saying "I care about the person not the body" in a way that somehow makes them superior. If someone wants to take the response that way, then I don't think you can do much to change their minds. It's just that different things turn on different people. Many people are more somatically attached, both by way of self-identification and by way of attraction than psychically/cerebrally/emotively attached. I think it's just a difference of what matters to people and how they view their worlds rather than some kind of binary value system at the core. As long as it has been expressed without some kind of smugness or superiority, maybe explained within a context indicating that neither kind of sexuality is "wrong" or "right" but that some kinds are conventionally acceptable because they are common and some are marginalized, it might achieve better results. Polite is good, but when you're challenging someone's prejudice ("there's only one right way" kind of attitude), you're going to offend that person simply by virtue of disagreeing, I think. Most people don't understand or accept that gender and sexuality are socially constructed concepts steeped within frameworks of differing values and traditions and that "right" and "wrong" don't quite work, so it's difficult for many people to even hear that distinction. My point is, as long as one isn't deliberately trying to be smug and superior, it doesn't have to be an insulting response because it isn't inherently connected to a value judgment that somatic attraction is somehow inferior.