[Oenomaus]

So I was thinking, if I'm going to cheat, an extra 2 oz isn't a bad way to go about it.

Well let me tell you... my coach didn't appreciate my logic. "Just follow the plan." She'd say. There wasn't a whole lot of conversation after that.

So, let me ask you. What's so bad about an extra ounce or two of lean meat? There's no carbs, no sugar, not an exorbant amount of calories... it's perfect.

[Annik]

the body can convert excess protein into glucose. Too much of it can kick you out of ketosis.

In my experience though, an extra ounce or two of lean meat on an occasional basis would not do it. Everyone has a different 'flex' point.

Your coach's advice is sound wisdom particularly if you are starting out -- if you want the programme to work, you have to work it.

[psjones]

Gluconeogenesis requires A LOT of protein, and it is also an on demand process.

"Meanwhile actively aiming to minimise protein will make it harder to maintain lean muscle mass which is critical to glucose disposal and insulin sensitivity."

"If you are seeing your blood sugar levels rise due to protein it is likely due to inability to produce enough insulin rather than too much protein."

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/06/03/why-do-my-blood-sugars-rise-after-a-high-protein-meal/

[Annik]

Originally Posted by psjones

Gluconeogenesis requires A LOT of protein, and it is also an on demand process.

"Meanwhile actively aiming to minimise protein will make it harder to maintain lean muscle mass which is critical to glucose disposal and insulin sensitivity."

"If you are seeing your blood sugar levels rise due to protein it is likely due to inability to produce enough insulin rather than too much protein."

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/06/03/why-do-my-blood-sugars-rise-after-a-high-protein-meal/

The link that you provided is a dead one.

My comments: Ideal Protein is a moderate protein diet. It is crucial to get enough protein in the diet for reasons that include protecting muscle mass.

But science is clear that too much protein will kick people out of ketosis. Everyone has a different sensitivity level so some people can be in ketosis on higher levels of carbs and proteins.

Others cannot.

I have to keep my carbs below 20 g a day and my protein intake between 60-80 g a day or I am out of ketosis.

That's a fact and it is a fact for many others too borne out in the science that is emerging.

What makes Ideal Protein successful is that the body switches over to fat burning instead of sugar burning. The moderate protein protects body muscle while the body's energy burning processes can resort to body fat stores for energy.

[psjones]

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017...-protein-meal/

Yes, IP is moderate protein. I am well aware of how the WOE works and why it is successful.

Gluconeogenesis is when protein is converted to glucose. That takes A LOT of extra protein and is an on-demand process. This is not emerging science.

[Annik]

Originally Posted by psjones

That takes A LOT of extra protein and is an on-demand process. This is not emerging science.

Ummm.... no it doesn't take A LOT of extra protein in everyone. Too much protein very easily kicks me out of ketosis.

Look, some people can handle 100 g of carbs a day and they lose weight and it is low carb for them.

I need to keep my carbs under 20 g ... and preferably 10 to be effective.

Not everyone is the same. Yes, this is an emerging science. It is why there are low carb conferences gathering scientists in many places at many times of the year every year.

William Banting, an obses UK undertaker is the first person known to popularize the low carb way in the mid 1800's. He began to follow the woe based on advice given to him by a doctor who had heard lectures in France given by Claude Bernard. Banting wrote 'Letter on Corpulence, Addressed to the Public' to promote the diet.

The woe never really took off until Dr. Atkins. And he was criticized by main stream science.

The Dr. Atkins woe has since been refined.

And there is tremendous work being done to make the woe more well known and to explore it more.

Gary Taubes investigative science journalist's work has helped raise awareness.

He works with NUSI, the Nutrition Science Initiative.

Drs. Phinney and Volek are at work in the field of low carb and performance enhancement.

Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt is at work in Sweden.

Dr. Timothy Noakes just faced court litigation in South African by opposing scientists (nutritionists, doctors) who are threatened by the fact that this new emerging field of science is threatening old dogma.

Our current food guidelines are based on the bad science of Dr. Ancel Keyes who named fat instead of sugar as the culprit in poor health.

If this were not an emerging field of science, we would not be struggling internationally to have food guides changed, to have doctors come on board, to have many, many more people helped by this woe.

There are so many more doors to be opened, so much more to learn, and so many more people who still need to see the light.

[Sundove]

Originally Posted by Oenomaus

So I was thinking, if I'm going to cheat, an extra 2 oz isn't a bad way to go about it.

Well let me tell you... my coach didn't appreciate my logic. "Just follow the plan." She'd say. There wasn't a whole lot of conversation after that.

So, let me ask you. What's so bad about an extra ounce or two of lean meat? There's no carbs, no sugar, not an exorbant amount of calories... it's perfect.

This is one of those things that is highly individual. On one hand, I agree with your coach, because any deviation however small and benign, can be a slippery slope to more cheating and disappointing results. On the other hand, the P1 protocol was too low in calories for my active job, and I experienced some hypoglycemia that could have been avoided with a little more protein. In the end, I cheated weekly by having more chicken. Moreover, I ate 8 oz/day of cooked chicken, not weighed raw as they state.

In the end, the diet is physiologically a lot more flexible than P1 would suggest. But psychologically, the discipline is part of what gets one to goal. So planning in an oz or 2 of chicken to cover your energy needs is one thing, but randomly adding things here and there will add too many micro-decisions. When the going gets tough, it's having the habit of sticking to plan that gets many of us through. Maybe your coach would be on board if you added a couple egg whites. Good luck!

[Annik]

Sun dove,

Looking back on my journey through P1, I see that I drove it too hard.

I agree with what you say.

My coach shorted me on protein. Because of my high weight, I should have been started with 3 or packets a day instead of 3.

I lost weight faster but I also lost hair. It's since grown back. But if I were to do it again....

I'd also supplement with electrolytes on a daily basis. I add some to my tea everyday now.

I'd make sure I got enough salt everyday -- 2 tsps quality sea salt is a must.

I would reach for a salty pickle more often and keep boiled eggs on hand for emergencies.

[itsmesusan]

I started IP 3 weeks ago & the nightly protein requirement is 8 oz... I was told if I needed to eat that 1st week or 2, to eat an extra IP food (I didn't need to). Maybe they changed it?

[Annik]

Originally Posted by itsmesusan

I started IP 3 weeks ago & the nightly protein requirement is 8 oz... I was told if I needed to eat that 1st week or 2, to eat an extra IP food (I didn't need to). Maybe they changed it?

This is what I was told, too.

My coach shorted me at the beginning!