Join Date: Mar 2013
wangela87 - sounds like you have a really healthy attitude towards everything and have taken a moderate approach. Good for you! Just where I want to get to.
Wannabeskinny - I haven't read that book yet, but it's on my reading list now. Interesting about the slippery slope you find yourself in when you eat wheat. I've heard about this happening to other people. Maybe I will notice that kind of thing now that I am trying to incorporate some of my previously forbidden foods. I have not been in the position to notice that because up until just lately it's been an all or nothing attitude with me.
freelance - it is really interesting your take on addiction or attraction. I would aggree that there is probably certain degrees of attraction, but would probably use the term addiction. I would also agree that everything is neurology, but isn't that the whole basis of addiction? I dated a self proclaimed alcoholic for a couple years. He was not as extreme of an alcoholic as a family friend of mine who ultimately drank himself to death, however if we had alcohol in the house he would try to abstain from it because once he allowed himself one drink, he had to have another and another until the alcohol was gone or he passed out whichever happend first. Also at any event where there was alcohol like at a wedding or something, he would go overboard, or restrain himself as to not look foolish but then needed to stop at the liquor store on the way home to load up and binge drink once we got home. I remember thinking his behaviour with alcohol was strikingly similar to my behaviour around certain kinds of food. Whether I call it addiction or just extreme attraction doesn't seem to make a real difference to me.Either way it was definitely a problem and interfered with life. It was actually a humerous situation with us on the "day after". Him and I both so sick and "hungover", him from alcohol and me from food.
Last I heard from him he was completely abstaining from alcohol and doing quite well with that. He practices avoidance and will often not attend an event or occasion if he knows there will be alcohol. He also makes sure there is never alcohol in his home. That has been my way with these certain types of food but it just doesn't really work in the real world. For me to do that I would have to quit my job and become a hermit (I have not quit my job but I am a hermit). I think complete abstinence for me would be the way to go theoretically, but we don't live in a world where that is realistic. And I think it is actually doing more harm than good, making me even more preoccupied with these foods whenever I see them, and reinforcing the all or nothing self destructive behaviours.
Not counting calories and eating when I'm hungry seems to be working amazingly well with me for most food. It's just not working well with "junk foods". So I do completely agree with song of surly that these foods mess with my body's own signals. And I have really been down on myself these last few days wondering what's wrong with me. I think for me if I decided to do intuitive eating while eating only things like chips, chocolate bars, and donuts, it would be a one way ticket to obesity for me. I think my brain (like freelance would say) is highly highly attracted to these foods. I think my mother could do just fine eating a steady diet of cookies and pizza and never overeat or gain a single pound, although she'd probably suffer from some kind of disease due to lack or nutrients or clogged arteries.
Last night, again I went to have dinner at my friends house, same friend I have been eating with lately. He was going to make a thai style chicken stir fry, one of my favourite dinners. As usual, whenever he cooks it is always ready about 2 or 3 hours later than planned. I was hungry. I knew it would be awhile when I arrived because like always nothing had been started yet. so being hungry i had an apple and a couple carrots (which would have been forbidden before), which really took the edge off and I was still feeling good and looking forward to that delicious stir fry I knew I would be having. But then, he took out the giant bowl of tostitos and salsa. And I wanted some. So I again like before started eating them and much calmer than the last time I was there decided I would just go with it and eat them until I didn't want anymore. I was going to let my intuitive eating guide me, just like it guides me so well with other foods. and I kept eating the chips and kept eating the chips, and guess what? I ate allllllllllll the chips. I felt gross, stuffed and bloated, much like I did when I allowed myself to eat as many donuts as I wanted 2 days ago. It wasn't a binge and I did not feel in binge mode at any point during this episode because I did not feel guilty or feel ashamed or anything. Emotionally, It was a much better feeling than I feel when binging being so ashamed, but my stomach did not feel too much different from a binge. I imagined what would have happened if my mother and sister were there with me along with the old "restrictive me". And this is how I think it would have gone down. My mother would eat like 2 chips or a handful and be completely fine and not want anymore. My sister would eat the chips, and probably eat more than she might like but would negotiate with herself saying stop now, you can always have more another time, pull herself away from the chips before completely stuffing herself and proceed with the stir fry. The old me would have said "no way, you cannot even have one chip" and I would have sat there with extreme anxiety watching everyone eat the chips denying myself until the stir fry came, eat the stir fry still being agitated, still thinking about those chips and not even paying attention the the stir fry, and then go home while stopping at the store loading up on binge foods where I would then binge. My sister in the meantime, would have felt like maybe she didn't need the chips and had a bit too many of them, but no big deal, she didn't binge, enjoyed the stir fry and went home, went to bed, and forgot about it. My mother would not have given any thought to anything whatsoever. I will say though that by the time the stir fry was ready I was so full from the chips there was no way I wanted the stir fry and could not eat any at all. i went home, did not binge becuase I did not feel shame and guilt, but I can say boy do i feel gross this morning. My stomach hates me. I am sitting here trying to drink my coffee but every sip makes me want to vomit. I think I would have been better off doing what my sister would have done and had some, put on some restraints, and still enjoyed the stir fry. I do not see it as a failure that I ate the chips though, because I'm quite sure had I denied myself and just eaten the stir fry, I would have hit the grocery store on the way home and had much much much more "junk food" than the whole bag of chips and would feel worse than I do now.
The point I'm geting at here is that I think bingefree2013s theory on stopping binging definitely works. I think it is best suited though for someone like my mother. I have no doubt it would also allow me to recover from binging, but I feel pretty sure (although i know it doesn't mean much what I am sure about because come on, i have an eating disorder so nothing I'm sure of has much credidbility) I would in addition to not being a binger, would end up in the overweight or obese category. I think for me I am best to do more like what krampus does where I would recover from binging but still be of normal weight (maybe not right away but at some point because I can see there is some trial and error involved with recovery). This is how my sister recovered. She does feel she needs some external brakes and cannot rely on intuitive eating with everything, just most things. It's something my mother will never understand.
So that is how I am going to proceed. I will continue with not counting calories, and eating intuitively with most things. With things like chips and donuts, I will have them and not deny myselt like before, but I will use some external methods to avoid eating 5 donuts or a whole bag of chips. And the guilt i will have to work on. If I do end up eating 5 donuts or a whole bag of chips I will try and not beat myself up about it just like how my sister doesn't. In that respect, like what song of surly said, it helps knowing that these foods are designed to make people eat more, and just knowing that helps with the guilt factor instead of putting it on myself asking "what's wrong with me" and feeling so much shame.
I could continue going as I am not putting any kind of restraint on these foods, but honestly I just don't see myself ever getting to that point where I only want 2 chips. It never happened to me as a child before my disordered eating, so I don't really have any reason to think that would happen to me now. Bingefree2013 you said as a child you had no interest in food whatsoever. That is like my mother. You guys are lucky, but it's just not me. I clearly remember sneaking cupcakes at my grandmas house at around 8years old.