Well, I wouldn't really call her my best friend now, more like friend or even close acquaintance. Some of the blame does fall on me, but I've been trying to rekindle our friendship, and she has been mostly ignoring me. I will brief you on our relationship (please, please no judgment here), and then you can tell me what you think.
Okay, we've known each other since the middle of first grade. We didn't become that close until around the middle of second grade. Part of the reason I can't let her go (easily) is because of how long we've known each other.
Her mother took her out of school around 5th grade to homeschool her. Her mother is one of those fanatical Christians (I am a conservative Christian. Don't worry, there's a reason I'm bringing this up). She thought my friend (we'll call her Alice) would be influenced too much by sinful people if left in school.
Anyway, we stayed in touch by spending the night together on weekends and during summer break/calling each other/chatting online all through school. Once I turned 18, I ran away from home, got married, and moved to CA for close to half a year. It shocked everyone, and Alice has since held a grudge against me for not informing her of my plans, but really they weren't plans. It was a spur-of-the-moment kind of thing.
I sent her emails while I was in CA, but didn't call her for fear of her being angry at me. This thickened the grudge she had, I guess.
But, then when I returned we started talking again, and hanging out. It was a bit slow, but it started to kind of go back to normal, until she got pregnant by her other b/f (someone she was seeing with her real b/f) and had an abortion. Again, conservative Christian here. I don't believe in abortions, but I was afraid to say anything for fear of making a bad experience worse, so I kept my mouth shut. I figured she was smart enough to decide for herself. It's her life, you know? Plus, she can't really blame me for something I didn't cause/do. I listened politely while she figured out what she wanted to do, but I do regret not being more opinionated. I'm just not an outspoken person (except maybe online where it's safe). I've always been shy, quiet, and overly polite in person.
Later it would come to rear it's ugly head again. Soon she got rid of both b/fs and moved to NY (technically, she got rid of her real b/f in NY, because that's where he lived). She started to ignore me again, and I was mad, because when she would talk to me, it would only be because she was depressed (she had started to do this even before I got married). She would save talking about happy things and having fun for her other friends. So, she keeps whining about her abortion, and I finally can't take it anymore, and told her if she was just going to complain then she should have just had the baby!
I truly feel rotten for saying that, and that pushed us even farther away. She said I was the worst person ever, and evil for saying that to her ect.
Eventually, I apologized for my words, and we moved on.
Later on, she turns lesbian. Again, I'm a conservative Christian. It doesn't take a genius to know what I think concerning that. She doesn't seem to mind too much that I don't agree with her lifestyle. But I don't slam her over the head with Bible verses or anything. I've told her plainly how I feel, and that's it. I don't need to repeatedly say it, because there's no point in that. Nevertheless, it's pushing us even farther apart, and now she's accumulating friends that do agree with her choice of lifestyle, and soon there's not going to be any more room for me.
Now, her mother doesn't know that she's a lesbian, and for fear that her mother might discover her 'real' facebook page, she has taken me off and put me on her 'fake' page, the one she only gets on to keep up appearances with her family about her life. I might be overreacting, but I believe this is her way of finally throwing me away for good.
I'm sorry this is so long. I know most of you will probably side with Alice (everyone except my family/church family does), but I can't just throw away my religious beliefs for her. I really don't know what I should do. I frequent her FB page like a stalker, look through her photos of her and her new 'cool' friends, and make pretty mean comments behind her back. This is turning me into a person I don't want to be, but she's the best girl friend I've ever had. I don't think I will ever feel the same away about another friend that I felt for the 'old' her, the one that I grew up with.
It's so depressing to me.
Last edited by 3FCer344892; 05-18-2011 at 10:47 PM.
It sounds like you've simply grown apart, Serval. Beliefs and politics aside, even if she were a straight mom now it sounds like she hasn't treated you so well, ignoring you and just using you as an emotional crutch. It is a painful and natural process for close girlfriends to grow apart.
I'd say that since you were able to think clearly enough to write that post, you know what needs to be done. You can phase her out gradually, doesn't have to be a big messy "breakup" involved. And while you'll never be a child again, that doesn't mean you'll never have another close girlfriend like that! It won't be "the same" as your friendship with Alice - no two friendships/relationships are ever exactly "the same" - but there's nothing preventing it from being every bit as good.
Also quit Facebook stalking and snarking ASAP, that's not the Christian thing to do!
I know it's not Christian. I admit that I am a bitter person. The sad thing is, our relationship probably was never very good for my Christianity anyway, because when we were younger we would constantly gossip about other people. It's just so sad, because we both are very depressive people, and it felt as if we dwelt in the "darkness" together, if that makes sense. And we knew each other so well, better than anyone else (well, then).
Later on, she turns lesbian. Again, I'm a conservative Christian. It doesn't take a genius to know what I think concerning that. She doesn't seem to mind too much that I don't agree with her lifestyle. But I don't slam her over the head with Bible verses or anything. I've told her plainly how I feel, and that's it. I don't need to repeatedly say it, because there's no point in that. Nevertheless, it's pushing us even farther apart, and now she's accumulating friends that do agree with her choice of lifestyle, and soon there's not going to be any more room for me.
Sweetie, I can feel your pain through this post.
However, I do have some things to say. Nobody "turns" lesbian. She may not have come to grips with her sexuality or she may be bi. I understand your religious beliefs about it. I don't share them, but I understand. Just realize she didn't get up one morning and decide she wanted to be lesbian.
She sounds like she is trying to find her own identity. She's led such a sheltered life and is exploring. I don't blame you for having the feelings you do and feeling betrayed and used.
Cut your losses. It will be a very hard thing to do, but let her go. You'll feel better in the long run.
I hear what your saying. I am a Christian and was raised that way..and while i dont agree with certain lifestyles..i embrace the person as a person because its not who they are which is causing you to disagree,its what there doing..However that being said..it sounds like you guys had an amazing friendship and were really close, but time and choices has caused you to move apart...and it sounds like there is a lot of hurt on your side..you feel hurt and its understandable..who wants to lose there best friend..and better yet, who wants to lose there best friend to other friends who are only influencing her in the things that you dont like..But regardless of how you feel, you need to begin to move on.. She is moving on with her life, and regardless of weather thats positive or negative..its not for you to judge..You will spend the rest of your life watching her life as your life slips by if you dont make a choice to let go of it for now and just move on to focussing on your future..Please dont make the mistake i did and whaste some of the best years of your life being miserable over something you cant control..
First, can we all just agree to let this thread be about this particular situation, not whose viewpoint in this situation is correct? 3FC is not a place to debate viewpoints on homosexuality.
Avery, you and I are obviously going to come at this from different perspectives, given that I am a married gay woman. My first question for you would be, is this a friendship you want to maintain even if your friend never agrees with you about her orientation? In other words, if she found a partner, had some kids...would you want to be there with her? If not, you may be more interested in being friends with the vision of her you have in your head, not the real her. If so, do both of you a favor and back off for now...you'll end up feeling worse than you do today as you try to turn her back into who she was before, and she'll end up hurt by your lack of respect and understanding for a fundamental part of her life.
If you DO really want to be her friend as she is today, that's probably going to mean not talking about this issue in depth. You need to understand that, to someone who is homosexual, it feels like an intrinsic part of who they are (again, let's not debate the right or wrong of that statement and focus more on how it feels). So if the topic of conversation comes up, your perspective of "I disagree with the choices you're making" is the same, to her, as "I do not like a part of who you are" or "I think you are intrinsically sinful". Continuing to have conversations like that isn't going to do anything to help retain a friendship. You need to let go of trying to change her back to who she was before, and embrace what she is now, even if some parts of what she is now aren't how you envisioned she'd be.
Second, don't try to interfere with her other friends. At this point, again, speaking from her perspective, she likely feels she is going through something big and scary...coming out, particularly to a family that is strongly religious, is a terrifying thing to do. So she likely needs those friends for support that you're not able to provide her because of your beliefs and that she won't get from her family. Respect that need. There can be room for all of you in her life. Jealousy of them and leaving mean comments will drive a greater wedge between you, which again, isn't what you want to do if you truly want to preserve the friendship with her as she is today.
Now at this point, any continued friendship is going to have to come from willingness and openness from both sides. I'm not sure how in-depth your conversations have been with her about her sexual orientation, or whether it's gotten ugly between you over it. If it has, that's a wound that she may need some time to heal. But if you don't want to be cut out from her life, as you said, and you are willing to be friends with her as she is today (not just who you'd want her to be), it might go a long way to say something like "Friend, I know we've disagreed in the past about your sexual orientation. We may never be able to agree on this topic, but that doesn't mean that I don't adore you and want to keep you in my life. Maybe we can agree to disagree on the issue and remain in each others lives." Again, she may not be OK with that (it can be hard to know that you're hanging out with someone who, fundamentally, thinks something you believe to be as much a part of you as your skin color is sinful), but it's worth a shot if you really want to keep her in your life.
If you can't see yourself being friends with her as she is today, that's OK too. Friends grow apart, and over much less significant reasons than a difference of opinion of this magnitude. But you'll both end up hurt and disappointed if you don't choose one or the other - either to accept her as she is for all of her good elements and decide to agree to disagree on her sexual orientation, or to let her go.
Porthardygurl: You make a really good point about me wasting my life worrying over hers. Whether or not I decide to still be in her life, I need to not be like that. I'm not sure how to go about doing that, though.
mandalinn82: Thank you for your advice. I'm not sure what I want (I'm also not sure what she wants either, since she has a g/f right now and is interested in an older man). She's been with her g/f for a couple years, and I've still been trying to talk to her. I make a lot of effort to keep in touch with her, but she hardly returns the effort. Even when she does talk to me, I notice that our conversation isn't what it used to be. It's not deep anymore. It's like she doesn't have a whole lot to say to me. What I really want is the 'old' Alice back, but I doubt that will ever happen. Many times I've asked her if she wants to still be friends or not, and she says she does, but it doesn't feel like she does, because she doesn't message me first, and when I had a phone, she stopped calling me first. I always initiated everything. I don't know if this means anything, but once I was chatting with her when she was drunk, and she pretty much said that she always "liked-liked" me. I'm not sure if she was doing this to gauge a response, or was really drunk and didn't know what she was saying or not. I don't think she remembers, because she hasn't mentioned it again. If she really did feel that way, than my being straight and marrying my husband probably was the thing to push the wedge between us. I don't know. Like I said, she was drunk.
To be honest with you, if I had a friend that didn't support and believe in my lifestyle I would ditch them too.
I once had an email forwarded to me discussing how sometimes a best friend isn't just one person...sometimes it's a culmination of people at different points in your life. Sure, we all need friends. I have my forever friends but have always had others that seem to come in and then fade out for one reason or the other.
...I had a close friend a few months ago imply something very unkind about my husband...something that was way off base..I weeded her out because I felt as though she wasn't supporting my marriage and therfore, my family..negative nellies..who needs them...
I can understand that you would feel that way, Thighs Be Gone. I believe Alice may have bad-mouthed my husband before when she was mad at me. Can't quite remember what she said now, but it doesn't matter anymore, since she apologized later.
Last edited by 3FCer344892; 05-19-2011 at 12:02 AM.
I don't know if this means anything, but once I was chatting with her when she was drunk, and she pretty much said that she always "liked-liked" me. I'm not sure if she was doing this to gauge a response, or was really drunk and didn't know what she was saying or not. I don't think she remembers, because she hasn't mentioned it again. If she really did feel that way, than my being straight and marrying my husband probably was the thing to push the wedge between us.
I don't know about that. Two of my male friends had crushes on me in high school. We're still VERY close friends, even though I'm gay and married. It's probably much less of a factor than you're thinking.
Honestly, I'd consider it more likely that your friend, being aware of your feelings about her sexual orientation, feels less comfortable with you than she did before. When you're not comfortable, it's hard to do the reaching out and initiating conversations that you once did. Then again, if it's ALWAYS been that way (you've always made the phone calls, etc), this may have nothing at all to do with her sexual orientation or your viewpoint. It may just be that you drifted apart for other reasons. But if the shift happened when she came out to you, I can imagine it being difficult to continue reaching out to someone who believes that a part of you is intrinsically wrong.
Well, when she came out to me I didn't make a big deal about it, because I thought it was a phase (she contradicts herself a LOT).
I didn't really respond rudely or freak out or anything when she told me she was seeing a girl. I only mentioned it a couple times a while later; once we even had a long, in-depth conversation. I was very respectful in that conversation, and was polite. I thought we were better after that, but I guess I was wrong. I told her I wanted to pretend that what she was doing didn't matter to me, and go back to normal, but I felt torn between my religion and our friendship, and she said she understood.
I believe the strain happened right after I got married. There was a little before, but it got big after that. That's when I was really the one to make the first calls, or IMs. It was like that a little before, but only occasionally.
I recently watched "Fish out of Water" on Netflix about what the bible REALLY says about homosexuality - and the context in which those passages were written, and I have to say I was stunned.
Before I watched this amazing video, I thought it was impossible to be a bible-believing Christian and a strong supporter of homosexual relationships and gay marriage.
I'm not saying I now "know what to believe," my faith is more complex than that, but I think this video should be shown in every Church in this country - not to convince anyone to support what they've been taught is wrong, but to consider why they believe what they do, and whether their reaction is really supported more by the bible or by bigotry.
As to the friendship, it's possible that your lives and beliefs are just too different to be more than acquaintences or casual friends.
I'm not judging (well trying not to), but there is part of your post that concerns me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serval87
I frequent her FB page like a stalker, look through her photos of her and her new 'cool' friends, and make pretty mean comments behind her back. This is turning me into a person I don't want to be...
This sounds like you're blaming her for your choices. You're choosing to "make pretty mean comments behind her back." That's all on you, not on her.
I'm not judging, because I know how hard to avoid hypocricy. It's hard not to see "voluntary sin" in what other people are doing, but "rational reasons for poor choices" for our own.
I don't think you or your friend are remotely bad people. I just don't see how your current beliefs are compatible with a deep friendship with your former best friend. At best, it's going to be a very different relationship than it was. And what I'm reading in your post, makes me think you don't really want to have a new kind of friendship with this woman - you want to rebuild the old one. You want her to be her "old" self, and that isn't going to happen.
It's normal to feel sad when a friendship changes or dies, but you can't make it be the type of friendship you want it to be. You may be able to forge something new, but only if both of you are willing and able to (and if one or both of you can't that is sad, but ok).
You've both hurt each other in ways that can kill a friendship under the best of circumstances. If one or both of you can't or aren't able or willing to repair the friendship, that doesn't mean either of you are wrong. Sometimes we have to let friendships die because they don't support us anymore or because there's no way we feel we can be a support to the other person.
Thanks, kaplods. I might check out that film you mentioned. I'm always interested to see what other people say about the Bible, though I usually take it with a grain of salt.
I understand that I'm the one that is turning myself into a bad person, and not her. It's so easy to blame others for your problems. I just wished she could give me a fraction of the support I gave her when she was depressed, but we're not close like that anymore, I guess.
I will see what happens, but I have considered for a while, just leaving her alone. Not saying anything mean to 'ruin' what little of this friendship is left out of spite, but also not taking her off my friends list on FB (our only means of communication now). I will probably still give her my cell number once I turn it on for if she ever wants to talk, but I probably won't call her unless she asks me to. I'm tired of being the only person making an effort. I don't want to force anyone to be my friend. I just feel like I'm pathetic, hanging onto someone that doesn't really want me around.
I think that's been one of the most challenging things for me in the recent years- weeding out my "real" friends from the people who have become acquaintances and I only keep up with vaguely on Facebook.
I have a friend that I've known since 2nd grade also, as well as some close friends from high school and middle school. When I got engaged I had to filter out some friends from my "inner circle" because of how they acted with me being engaged. Now that I have two kids, I can afford to be even pickier because I'm responsible for who's around them. Including who's not physically there, but who causes drama and treats me poorly from a distance. I don't need that, my kids don't need to witness that.
And you don't need it either. You don't have to cut her out of your life all at once... you need to emotionally separate yourself from her first anyway. You don't believe in abortion, so really, next time she brings it up, it's okay to say "You know, I feel very differently about this than you do. I'm not comfortable discussing it like I have no problem with it, can we talk about something else." If she wants to push the issue and fight, just walk away. Set the boundaries, because they need to be there now and you can put them up. If she can't respect your boundaries, then the friendship obviously isn't, and it's time to officially walk away. Otherwise, you're left with another acquaintance you can have fun with and laugh with when the time is right, talk about serious things when you want to invest the emotional energy (and not just when she feels like draining it from you) and reminisce over the past with.
Should I let my best friend go?
It's just so sad, because we both are very depressive people, and it felt as if we dwelt in the "darkness" together, if that makes sense. And we knew each other so well, better than anyone else (well, then). 
