[Liliann]

I don't where to post this, but am hoping it is okay that I share it on here.

I just heard on my local news tonight about having friends influence us on being heavy. They did a study and state that having friends can make us heavy. Which in my mind and experinces with having friends during my childhood years, that friends sabtaoge when choosing foods.

In my teen years, had bad choices with neighborhood friends lead me with junk foods. As I recall back then with having friends who had vist my home and bringing bakery goodies, and coffee. They were thin and I was the only heavy set teenager with weight problem. They never support me, just keeping bringing donuts and coffee, whenever I was home from school .

Most of my neighborhood friends moved on and lost contact..as one still remain and me and one of my sister had night eating by going to the local supermarket at the wee hours in the morning and ate to our content.

As of our neighborhood friend/now part of family, which she also struggles with weight issue, and as we gotten older and wiser, me and her realized that what food choices we did back then was wrong and now we paying the price on food addiction.

At my age now,friendless, which I have a special male friend..but my urges on having friends of my own can ruin my efforts. All my life wanting to have friends, good friends that won't hurt my dream on getting in shape .Now I know why I have huge cravings for sweets.. That now I can not avoid and be part of my eating plan for life.

What are your thoughts about having friends that can influence ,hinders your weight loss efforts?

[mandalinn82]

The study didn't actually say that having -any- friends will cause weight gain. It said that having heavier friends is correlated with gaining weight. I know that being around people who aren't eating healthfully can be a bit of a sabotage for me...the foods on their plates tempt me sometimes, and they often keep trigger foods in the house (and sometimes I have trouble resisting them). Friends in general, though, don't pose much of a problem for me.

[kaplods]

I responded to a similar post, but I think bears repeating.

The interpretation of these results seem pretty insane. If you become obese, of course your relatives are genetically and evironmentally predisposed to the same risks - they didn't "catch" it from you. And though you don't pick your friends based on them being genetically similar to you (at least not consciously, some social experiments suggest that maybe we unconsciously do), you do often choose them based on sharing the same interests, hobbies, goals, life experiences, geographic proximity.... In other words, you're likey to choose friends and even spouses based at least somewhat on traits they have in common with you. They're likely to be living in the same community, possibility sharing the same work environment, and similar life stresses - again they didn't "catch" it from you, they just share a similar environment.

I agree that people with the same bad habits can be enablers to each other, but the problem I see with interpreting this as fat in ANY WAY being contagious, is that it almost advocates alienating and ostracizing fat people - don't be friends with that fat girl - you'll CATCH IT!

[luja]

I was really frustrated with how this study was written up in the press. Correlation is not causation and people who write for papers don't seem to get that, ever. If the topic interests me I always go read the original research article because invariable the paper has missed the boat. This is one of those I am going to do - I'll post a link when I find it, in case anyone else is interested.

[Heather]

Liliann -- Thanks for posting this! It's a great topic to discuss!

Originally Posted by luja

I was really frustrated with how this study was written up in the press. Correlation is not causation and people who write for papers don't seem to get that, ever. If the topic interests me I always go read the original research article because invariable the paper has missed the boat. This is one of those I am going to do - I'll post a link when I find it, in case anyone else is interested.

You read my mind! That's exactly what I was gonna say!!

I get SO frustrated with how news outlets report the results of studies. I have an assignment in my research design course for paper to read articles like this in the mainstream media and pay attention to how well the reporter did at presenting the study, from a research perspective. All too frequently, the conclusions made in the article far overreach the results of the study.

Edited to add: Okay, I just went and read MSN's coverage of the study here. The title that shows up in my browser is "Your friends can make you fat." To me, that is clearly suggesting a CAUSAL relationship. Yet, you really can't make a claim that is causal like that unless you have done an experiment where you control for all variables except the one you think is the causal one.

The study is a very large one, and uses participants who have been a part of research since the 1970s. It's published in the New England Journal of Medicine -- considered a prestiguous journal. I get the sense that the research is solid -- but that doesn't mean the CONCLUSION is valid.

The MSN article doesn't go into a lot of details about the analysis, but it is clearly not an experimental study, but a correlational one (so luja's point is very relevant). There could be many reasons why friends tend to gain weight together -- and I don't know they accounted for them.

I'm really disturbed by the language that obesity is "contagious". I think Coleen is right -- one message people could get is that you should stop being friends with fat people. Yeah, that's helpful!

[Heather]

more stuff (feel free to ignore my blathering...)

What's really interesting, and getting back to one of Liliann's points, is that they say friends gain weight together -- even if they are separated by geography! So it's NOT necessarily about hanging out together and having bbqs and whatnot.

Also, they point out that if a woman gains weight, her friends are more likely to gain (I don't dispute that point -- it's the causal mechanism I'm concerned about). But what if a woman DOESN'T gain weight?? Do her friends also gain?? You need to look at BOTH situations and compare them I would think. Maybe that's in the original article.

[Heather]

Okay, here's the abstract of the article. There doesn't seem to be a lot of "causal" language here. They describe the relationships they observed but, at least in the abstract, do not talk about it quite so causally.

The full article is actually online here! (for free even! Who knew!)

ABSTRACT

Background The prevalence of obesity has increased substantially over the past 30 years. We performed a quantitative analysis of the nature and extent of the person-to-person spread of obesity as a possible factor contributing to the obesity epidemic.

Methods We evaluated a densely interconnected social network of 12,067 people assessed repeatedly from 1971 to 2003 as part of the Framingham Heart Study. The body-mass index was available for all subjects. We used longitudinal statistical models to examine whether weight gain in one person was associated with weight gain in his or her friends, siblings, spouse, and neighbors.

Results Discernible clusters of obese persons (body-mass index [the weight in kilograms divided by the square of the height in meters], ≥30) were present in the network at all time points, and the clusters extended to three degrees of separation. These clusters did not appear to be solely attributable to the selective formation of social ties among obese persons. A person's chances of becoming obese increased by 57% (95% confidence interval [CI], 6 to 123) if he or she had a friend who became obese in a given interval. Among pairs of adult siblings, if one sibling became obese, the chance that the other would become obese increased by 40% (95% CI, 21 to 60). If one spouse became obese, the likelihood that the other spouse would become obese increased by 37% (95% CI, 7 to 73). These effects were not seen among neighbors in the immediate geographic location. Persons of the same sex had relatively greater influence on each other than those of the opposite sex. The spread of smoking cessation did not account for the spread of obesity in the network.

Conclusions Network phenomena appear to be relevant to the biologic and behavioral trait of obesity, and obesity appears to spread through social ties. These findings have implications for clinical and public health interventions.

[Heather]

Okay, I skimmed the article, and while the authors do use some causal language, they are very clear they are suggesting ONE possibility. "Other mechanisms are also possible. Unfortunately, our data do not permit a detailed examination."

Overall, I find this to be really interesting research. But I think the media's spin "Friends MAKE you fat" is somewhat off the mark.

Seriously, I'm done blathering now (for which you are probably all grateful. But this is what I do in my job to some extent, so it's hard to let it go!).

Thanks again, Liliann for bringing it up!!!!

[kaplods]

I wish basic experimental design was actually a required topic in schools, starting at least as early as kids first start being able to contribute in science fairs. The concept that correlation doesn't imply causation is VERY important and easy to grasp if presented simply. We often hear that statistics can be manipulated to give any results - that's not true, but we can state them in a way that the unwary may jump to conclusions.

I remember the first correlation example I was given. Drowning deaths increase with ice cream consumption. Many in the class were stumped as to how ice cream could cause drowning (we all IMMEDIATELY assumed some sort of causation directly or indirectly - because that's how we're taught to think). No one in the class drew the correct conclusion - both increase in the summer. Many people still think that if they toss a coin that's come up heads 3 times in a row, it's "due" to come up tails and is more likely to come up tails on the 4th toss - NOPE the odds are still 50/50.

It IS science, but it's not ROCKET science.

[Heather]

Colleen, I so agree with you!!! (you know that!) I think we are doing society a disservice by not teaching this in schools.

As for ice cream and drowning, I actually give that exact example in class!

Here's another one. People who ate oatmeal as children are more likely to die of cancer than people who ate Frosted Flakes as children.

What's going on there? Is oatmeal CAUSING the problem? Is it bad for you? Or is something else going on??

What are your guesses?? I'll wait to give the answer.

[balloonlady]

Originally Posted by wyllenn

more stuff (feel free to ignore my blathering...)

What's really interesting, and getting back to one of Liliann's points, is that they say friends gain weight together -- even if they are separated by geography! So it's NOT necessarily about hanging out together and having bbqs and whatnot.

My best friend and I have been seperated by geography for nearly 20 years. We've both gained weight and we both started out about the same size and are about the same size now. We didn't make each other fat. Rather we gravitated towards each other because we have stuff in common. Eating is apparently one of those things. Interestingly enough when one of us goes on a diet or tries an exercise program the other one does too. Not always the same program or diet, but we get inspired by each other and support each other. Where is the study that says your friends can help you get in shape?

[Heather]

Stacey -- I think your point is the same as Colleen's from earlier in the thread (we choose people based on interests). I agree! They really don't address that element of it -- at least from my quick read of the article.

Originally Posted by balloonlady

Where is the study that says your friends can help you get in shape?

Amen!

[kaplods]

wyllen, Hmm my guess would be that people who ate oatmeal as children are from a different generation than those that ate cornflakes, and that cancer treatment advances have been made every year, making the date of your birth (and consequently the date you acquired cancer) earlier. The later you were born, the more state-of-the-art treatments you would have received.

The correlation between churches and crime is a fun one too. The more churches a community has, the more crime (this one is an easy one). I use this one as a riddle whenever someone passes along almost urban-myth level health advice usually based on an obviously correlational study.

[MetaChick]

Ooooohhhh I love thinking problems! And I hate them too!!!!

The only thing that occurred to me is that the Frosted Flakes people might have developed generally crappier eating habits, so dropped dead of things like heart attacks or something else rather than cancer. So the oatmeal people could be more likely to die of cancer, which often strikes later in life, because they generally outlive the frosties.

But don't tell us yet! I want to go think some more...

Thanks for this Heather. It's not like I have to work or anything.

[Lilion]

I actually heard a teaser for this story on the news this morning or yesterday, I forget which. I missed the actual story though. But the teaser was "Having fat friends will make you fat." How scary is that statement?

I fully understand the "study" -to use the word lightly- but it's ludicrous. If a wife becomes obese her husband is more likely too? Duh...they are likely eating the same thing. If a sibling becomes obese another sibling is more likely to? Have they ever heard of genetics? My brother and I both struggle with our weight. We literally see each other once a year, email about 6 x a year and have NOTHING in common. I gained a LOT of weight in college and law school. My friends did too. Could it be that we drank too much and ate pizza at 2 a.m.? It's your lifestyle that makes you fat, not your friends. If you and your friends spend a lot of time together pigging out - guess what?