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I read about it on the Success thread and I've got to tell you it sounds too good to be true.
The gal using it was impressed with the results it was having on the pockets of fat on her outer thighs. She also said she had a lot of energy which was supposed to be normal. She then went on to talk about going off it for a couple of days off because the Yohimbine in it caused water retention. And that by the second day there was a noticable difference in how far the outer thighs stuck out. And that over three weeks she has lost a lot of fat from her outer thighs.
So what's the real story? Anybody know? And what about the chemicals in it and what they do to the body?
Ive never heard of this particular product But I do know that Yohimbie(by the name it sounds like this is the main ingredient) is a herbal medication used to treat erectile dysfunction. I dont know what the connection may be, just a tid bit of info.
Yohimburn kicks ***, literally. I dont normally post on these types of boards but I got an email about this thread, so I thought I would drop in and give my two cents. While I am not in the same boat, many of my clients are. I use yohimburn to get rid of the last bits of fat on my hams and glutes for competition. The same principle still applies to people with higher bodyfats. That fat is difficult to lose, the kind that just does not go away when you diet, is that way because of the density of alpha 2 receptors that you have in that fat tissue. Yohimburn works by taking the alpha 2 out of the equation. This allow you to burn the fat. While also slightly accellarating the metabolism as well.
there are some caveats:
a. with few exceptions it will not just melt the fat off. you still have to diet and exercise to get good results. though at higher bodyfats my clients seem to get very good losses with little adjustment to diet or exercise. I would venture to guess that at higher bodyfat levels due to higher estrogen their fat is very alpha 2 rich.
b. More yohimburn is not better, unless you are dieting "hard" or really ramp up the exercise level. The increase in metabolism is less than the increase in fatty acid release. Thus, as is so often stated by the manufacturer, The more that you use the more important diet and exercise are to getting good results.
If you have any questions feel free to post them or PM me.
To me this sounds like a product called "Cutting Gel" which is basically marketed as a spot reducer at $100+ per tube - of course it's way hyped and overblown as the only spot it truly reduces is your wallet!
I asked my buddies at Lean & Strong about Yohimburn - and got the following response so far:
Quote:
"I use yohimburn to get rid of the last bits of fat on my hams and glutes for competition." ---
That would be spot reduction.
"That fat is difficult to lose, the kind that just does not go away when you diet" ---
Nutrition and diet can get you to 5% as apparent with some of our members. [see the Transformation Gallery at www.leanandstrong.com]
"Yohimburn works by taking the alpha 2 out of the equation. This allow you to burn the fat. While also slightly accellarating the metabolism as well." ----
Muscle is "metabolism" so are they saying that it increases muscle as well? Come on!
And now the disclaimer that basically says if you diet and exercise you will lose weight even without this product:
"a. with few exceptions it will not just melt the fat off. you still have to diet and exercise to get good results. though at higher bodyfats my clients seem to get very good losses with little adjustment to diet or exercise. I would venture to guess that at higher bodyfat levels due to higher estrogen their fat is very alpha 2 rich.
b. More yohimburn is not better, unless you are dieting "hard" or really ramp up the exercise level. The increase in metabolism is less than the increase in fatty acid release. Thus, as is so often stated by the manufacturer, The more that you use the more important diet and exercise are to getting good results."
Now I do know that competitors use such methods as Preparation H and saran wrap or topical Thioumucase gel - but keep in mind that bodybuilding competitors' bodyfat is generally under 10%. Most of the time it's water weight that quickly returns after the competition is over and they go off their competition diet - generally within 24 hours. Jockeys use similar methods in order to make racing weight - the water weight they lose is often regained the next day.
Basically it's a waste of money IMO - but especially if your bodyfat is NOT under 10%.
My mantra about drugs and supplements is informed choice. I'm not going to lecture you about what is natural and what isn't, but I am going to lecture you about looking before you leap. The first thing to remember is that the supplement industry is built on hype and lies. Most legal supplements DO NOT WORK. Someone once told me that a Russian strength scientist, discussing American use of supplementation, said that Americans had the most expensive piss in the world. Of course, hope springs eternal, but most legal supplements are, sorry to say, useless.
As far as the link to the Nutros site - well, they're selling the stuff so I wouldn't exactly call them a nonbiased source of info...
Originally posted by MrsJim To me this sounds like a product called "Cutting Gel" which is basically marketed as a spot reducer at $100+ per tube - of course it's way hyped and overblown as the only spot it truly reduces is your wallet! actually it is quite different from "cutting gel" and all of the other topical diuretics made by Klien becker, urban biologics, etc (which are in reality all the same parent company). they are all aminophylline based topicals (essentially a weak beta-agonist). Yohimburn is a topical that uses yohimbine which is an alpha adrenergic blocker (antagonist)
Now I do know that competitors use such methods as Preparation H and saran wrap or topical Thioumucase gel - but keep in mind that bodybuilding competitors' bodyfat is generally under 10%. Most of the time it's water weight that quickly returns after the competition is over and they go off their competition diet - generally within 24 hours. Jockeys use similar methods in order to make racing weight - the water weight they lose is often regained the next day.
Yohimbine (the active in yohimburn) is quite unlike this. It actually has an ANTI-DIURETIC EFFECT, in many cases people that I know that have used have had water retention. Though I get very little myself, but that it probably because I take ephedrine and caffiene with it (both of which are diuretics)
Basically it's a waste of money IMO - but especially if your bodyfat is NOT under 10%.
Considering you have a. not used yohimburn and b. dont understand the role that the A2 receptor plays in lipolysis are not much of a judge of its effectiveness (unless you are referring to the diuretic effects of the preparations above.. in which case I whole heartedly agree and retract.. though having read the way that you slagged me off on that site, not sure that I really care what you think)
quote:
"I use yohimburn to get rid of the last bits of fat on my hams and glutes for competition." ---
That would be spot reduction.
smart one
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"That fat is difficult to lose, the kind that just does not go away when you diet" ---
Nutrition and diet can get you to 5% as apparent with some of our members. [see the Transformation Gallery at www.leanandstrong.com]
---------------------------------------------------------------- a quick note on bodyfat, having used dexxa and having a working understanding bodyfat measurement, it is IMPOSSIBLE for most humans to go sub 5%, the brain is comprised mostly of fatty tissue as well as are many of the organs, not counting intramuscular and intraabdominal fat. With subcutaneous measures, which are not an accurate reflection of overall body fat, it is possible, but usually such readings are due to poor calipering. But yes with proper diet some people can get VERY lean, but some people that either due to environment or genetics are laden with A2 receptors, need help
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"Yohimburn works by taking the alpha 2 out of the equation. This allow you to burn the fat. While also slightly accellarating the metabolism as well." ----
Muscle is "metabolism" so are they saying that it increases muscle as well? Come on!
---------------------------------------- yohimbine, which blocks the A2 and thus negates the negative feedback mechanism, increases the amount of nor epinephrine released, which increases metabolism as due most stimulatory neurotransmitters. If this basic premise eludes your buddies at lean and strong, perhaps they should rethink critisizing others. there are a # of things that increase metabolism, while increased muscle mass is one of them, it certainly does not comprise the entirety. uncoupling proteins, thyroxines, GH, Dopamine (through prolactin and leptin manipulation), etc.
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And now the disclaimer that basically says if you diet and exercise you will lose weight even without this product:
"a. with few exceptions it will not just melt the fat off. you still have to diet and exercise to get good results. though at higher bodyfats my clients seem to get very good losses with little adjustment to diet or exercise. I would venture to guess that at higher bodyfat levels due to higher estrogen their fat is very alpha 2 rich.
b. More yohimburn is not better, unless you are dieting "hard" or really ramp up the exercise level. The increase in metabolism is less than the increase in fatty acid release. Thus, as is so often stated by the manufacturer, The more that you use the more important diet and exercise are to getting good results."
------------------------------------------------------------- actually this was just to say that IT IS NOT A MAGIC PILL, it is something that helps and that is why I came here to defend it as well to to explain the basic premise. It has made a big difference for both myself (the last bit of fat makes all the difference with the judges, its not water that has held me back because I am BONE ****ING DRY at showtime) and for my clients mostly because it made it possible, IN ADDITION TO WORKING AT IT, to lose the stubborn fat. It is not a miracle supplement, its just one of the tools in the arsenal.
If you want to read a really good article on yohimbine as well as the A2
Originally posted by freexe It has made a big difference for both myself (the last bit of fat makes all the difference with the judges, its not water that has held me back because I am BONE ****ING DRY at showtime) and for my clients mostly because it made it possible, IN ADDITION TO WORKING AT IT, to lose the stubborn fat. It is not a miracle supplement, its just one of the tools in the arsenal.
Please keep in mind that the people that use this website are generally trying to lose large amounts of body fat. These are not people trying to lose a tiny percentage of body fat in order to impress judges in a body building competition. As such, the ONLY tools necessary for our readers are a healthy weight loss program which involves nutritious foods, a normal exercise routine, and an exam by their personal physicians. We do not promote the use of ANY supplements for weight loss. If a person has a specific health issue and their physician recommends the use of a product (such as alpha lipoic acid for PCOS patients) then that is one thing. But following the advice which masquerade sales pitches is another. If these products did what the manufacturers claim, they would be pushed by every reputable physician and hospital, and backed up by extensive university and clinical research... and it would be on the cover of every newspaper in the world. Instead, we are faced with articles backed by the manufacturers or others who stand to gain a monetary profit from the sales of these products.
Many, if not most, obese people suffer from various health conditions such as high blood pressure, high cholesterol levels, and heart disease. I have all three. I am not going to risk my health further by taking controversial products which have never been proven by reputable research to work, and have instead proven to cause health risks for some people.
For example...
From the FDA website:
Quote:
C. Yohimbe (Pausinystalia yohimbe)
Yohimbe is a tree bark containing a variety of pharmacologically active chemicals. It is marketed in a number of products for body building and "enchanced male performance." Serious adverse effects, including renal failure, seizures and death, have been reported to FDA with products containing yohimbe and are currently under investigation.
The major identified alkaloid in yohimbe is yohimbine, a chemical that causes vasodilation, thereby lowering blood pressure. Yohimbine is also a prescription drug in the United States. Side effects are well recognized and may include central nervous system stimulation that causes anxiety attacks. At high doses, yohimbine is a monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitor. MAO inhibitors can cause serious adverse effects when taken concomitantly with tyramine-containing foods (e.g., liver, cheeses, red wine) or with over-the-counter (OTC) products containing phenylpropanolamine, such as nasal decongestants and diet aids. Individuals taking yohimbe should be warned to rigorously avoid these foods and OTC products because of the increased likelihood of adverse effects.
Yohimbe should also be avoided by individuals with hypotension (low blood pressure), diabetes, and heart, liver or kidney disease. Symptoms of overdosage include weakness and nervous stimulation followed by paralysis, fatigue, stomach disorders, and ultimately death.
I bet you won't find that printed on the labels of these products!
According to a study by BioValidity..
Quote:
Studies point out that Yohimbe may cause hypertension, panic attacks, manic-like symptoms in patients with bipolar depression, and numerous other serious side-effects and drug interactions. It is therefore important that consumers consult with physicians before seeking out Yohimbe as a supplement.
..."Sometimes individuals interested in making a profit may mislead or otherwise misinform consumers on the health claims of any given substances," said Dr. Hamlin. Because of the numerous potential side effects and drug interactions, consumers should consult with their physicians.
Yohimburn
