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Wondering: Fat VS Calories

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Old 07-13-2004, 11:44 AM   #1
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Arrow Wondering: Fat VS Calories

So, I've been calorie counting (3 days completely on plan, this is day 4!) and I had this thought last night.

If I'm shooting for 1800 per day, but let's say I wind up with 1850 because the nectarine I ate put me over. Would that technically not damage me that much because it's fruit, as opposed to going 50 calories of potato chips over every night?

I have been eating really healthfully but that question popped in last night. I hope the question is worded right and ya'll understand!

What do you think?
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Old 07-13-2004, 11:48 AM   #2
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First of all CONGRATULATIONS for being on plan for 4 days that is AWESOME.

The nectarine is a much better choice vs. potato chips - no fat. 50 calories won't damage you because you will probably burn those 50 off while you sleep and then some! I've got to run out to a meeting but when I get back, I'll write more!
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Old 07-13-2004, 11:59 AM   #3
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I just wanted to ditto at 4 days OP is AWESOME I agree that those 50 calories aren't going to hurt too bad. If you are worried, do like me and eat less calories the next day.
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Old 07-13-2004, 12:02 PM   #4
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4 days - great! some days - 4 hours are good for me

to me.. calories are calories..... you can eat 1800 calories of french fries a day and still lose weight - but you will not be a very healthy person. It's all about balance. But to lose weight - it's all about intake (calories)

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Old 07-13-2004, 12:30 PM   #5
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Ohh Ohhh Yeah, yeah.. I agree with Dana!! -- calories are calories. She's right, you won't be a healthy person eating all the bad choices. Just like Howie said in a previous thread, "bargain shopping with" calories.. You usually get more food if you eat a healthy choice rather than choosing something you can have 1 bite of for the same amount of calories. So why not get full with a healthy choice than not feel full with something not so healthy!!

Calories are calories but I think some are better than others!
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Old 07-13-2004, 12:55 PM   #6
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I guess my real question is this:

If someone were to eat 1800 calories per day of potato chips and
someone were to eat 1800 calories per day of watermelon.... (OBVIOUS health issues aside!!!) would they lose/gain weight at the same rate?

I've got to think no. I do think fat plays a part. Hmmm...
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Old 07-13-2004, 12:59 PM   #7
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I agree fat plays a HUGE part. I'll have to admit, I'm kinda torn on this one. Hey, where's Miss Encyclopedia when you need her!!!

It's hard for me to accept the concept that if you eat fatty foods all day long using the same amount of calories as healthy foods that you'll lose the same... I'd tend to agree with you Apryl but truth is, I don't really know!!
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Old 07-13-2004, 01:08 PM   #8
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here is a snipit I found on the Calorie Control Council website..


"Obviously, calories still count! Weight is determined by the number of calories consumed and the number used as energy. If more calories are consumed than burned, the result is weight gain. Merely controlling grams of fat consumed, which was popular nutrition advice in the past, does not necessarily result in a reduction in calories."

In reading this it seems to me that Dana may be 100% right on.. A calorie is a calorie!! They don't specify what type of food is consumed either.. hmmm interesting.

What's everybody think?? GOOD Thread Apryl!


Heres another sniptit from another article:

"Good" food, "bad" food biases. In: Moderation.

Nutritionally speaking, there aren't any good or bad foods. When eaten in moderation, all foods fit. Because no single food provides all the nutrients our bodies need, it's important to eat a variety of wholesome foods each day.

Counting calories as equals. In: Looking at where calories come from.

All calories are not created equal. Bite for bite, complex carbs like those in grain foods have four calories per gram whereas a gram of fat has nine calories.

Diets that avoid starches or grains. In: Eating grains to fuel an active, low-fat lifestyle.

Complex carbohydrates found in grains are one of the main sources of energy for working muscles. Nutrition experts recommend eating six to 11 servings of grain foods ? such as whole-wheat bread, rice or cereal ? each day.



So it seems that differnt "types" of calories for different benefits??
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Old 07-13-2004, 01:16 PM   #9
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No, a calorie is not necessarily a calorie (wow, deep, man) in that our bodies metabolise nutrients differently. For example, the body reacts differently to -- and does different things with -- carbohydrates vs. proteins. I'll get some more info and return. (Eventually! )
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Old 07-13-2004, 02:43 PM   #10
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Ok, well, as always, in looking for good information on fitness and nutrition, one of my first stops is Dr. Hussman's website. I'm pasting below a bit of information from his discussion of nutrition.

************************************************** ********

Your raging metabolism


Let's talk about your metabolism. Yeah, I know it's too slow. No doubt, you've got the fat gene too. Probably from both sides. I'm kidding, of course, but it's amazing how many people talk quite authoritatively about their metabolism being slow without actually knowing what metabolism is, or what they can do about it.

There are three components to your metabolic rate:

Base Metabolic Rate or BMR. This is the amount of energy your body would use simply by lying around in bed all day. You increase your BMR by building more muscle, which is metabolically active. You'll find a calculator to estimate your BMR in the "How calories work" section below.

* Unrestricted Physical Activity or UPA. This is the amount of energy your body uses during daily activity. You increase UPA through exercise, and also by doing physical activity throughout the day (take a walk, take the stairs, choose a more distant parking spot).

* Thermal Effect of Food or TEF. This is basically the second law of thermodynamics at work - converting energy from one form to another is never 100% efficient. So eating typically throws off a modest amount of energy as heat. You increase TEF by eating small, frequent rations containing mostly protein and carbohydrate. Unfortunately, since the body stores excess dietary fat directly as body fat, there is no need to convert it, so eating fat generates virtually no thermic effect at all. Now, don't kid yourself that eating more food is a way of burning calories. But for a given "budget" of calories you eat in a given day, it's better to spread those calories out across several small rations containing protein and carbohydrate, rather than blowing the budget on a couple of larger or higher fat meals.

Metabolism includes two groups of chemical reactions in the body:

Anabolism - which is creation or "building up", and
Catabolism - which is destruction or "breaking down"

There are a lot of people who simplistically believe that you can't build muscle and burn fat at the same time, since building muscle is anabolic and burning fat is catabolic. This is wrong, but it's wrong in an interesting way. Clearly, you can't be anabolic and catabolic at full-throttle in the same instant, but you can certainly affect your body's ability to accomplish both during the day.

There are dozens of chemicals and hormones involved in regulating metabolism, but for practical purposes, two that you have the ability to do much about. They are insulin and cortisol.

Insulin is one of the main anabolic hormones in the body. The only way that glucose (sugar) can get into the cells to be used as energy is for it to be accompanied by a little insulin guy. Insulin does two things: it says "Hey, we've got sugar in the bloodstream here. Stop burning fat so that we can get rid of this stuff first." And then the insulin helps to transport the sugar into the cells.

So insulin is "anabolic". It helps the muscle cells to get fed. Well, muscle cells and fat cells. If your muscle glycogen stores are full, insulin feeds your fat cells instead. If you spike your insulin higher by eating a significant amount of simple carbohydrates (such as sugar) when your energy stores are full, the excess carbs are converted to fat and escorted to your hips. The insulin then causes a subsequent plunge in blood glucose, often followed by fatigue. Brain cells can't store glucose, so that plunge in blood glucose can also cause dizziness. So, too much sugar and you may find yourself saying "I'm fat because I'm tired, and I'm tired because I'm fat." Bottom line: insulin is triggered by the consumption of simple carbohydrates. Except when you want to intentionally spike your insulin levels, you should choose carbohydrates that trigger a minimal release of insulin. These are called low-glycemic carbohydrates.

************************************************** *******

If you're serious about taking control of your nutrition and managing your health overall, I strongly urge you to visit Dr. Hussman's site. He's amazing, and there's a wealth of credible, respected information to be found there.
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Old 07-13-2004, 03:17 PM   #11
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And she pulls through again.... What would we do without Sarah??
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Old 07-13-2004, 04:58 PM   #12
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Sorry to go OT, but Gretchen, you look JUST like an actress on my soap opera! It's uncanny.

Sarah, thanks for the info! And congrats to Apryl, who is doing a magnificent job of staying on track!
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Old 07-13-2004, 06:19 PM   #13
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Congrats on the 4 days on track, Apryl.

I would say I'm walking, talking proof of the article "Miss Encyclopaedia" served up for us.......I am really careful about the kind of carbs I eat, and I don't count calories, but I do keep my fat intake low. Even tho my blood sugar is now 'normal' (I was diagnosed with impaired glucose tolerance/pre-diabetes....fixed that by losing the pounds...), I still have some kind of insulin reaction to certain kinds of carbs........too many potatoes, and I fall asleep! I'm sure if I had the same calorie intake, but was eating a lot more high GI carbs, I would find it much harder to lose weight....(but even for you guys, I'm not planning on putting that statement to the test!)

So, no, a calorie is not just a calorie.
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Old 07-13-2004, 06:30 PM   #14
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Greetings one and all...
I visited the 100lb. chat on Sunday and viola! here I am posting. I'm going into my third day tomorrow of a renewed spirit and goal. I'm 255# wanting to be 150# by next spring. Treadmill for aerobics and Total Gym for toning - trying to wean myself off of the carbs....thanks artist for your inspiration on Sunday...also thanks Br00klyn for pouring water into the chips....wadda great inspiration!
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Old 07-13-2004, 07:51 PM   #15
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Ok I know what the article above is saying but when I lost 180 lbs in the early 90s all I watched was calories. If I wanted a big mac I had a big mac. I just took it off my calories for the day. I seem to remember still packing a sandwich and chips for lunch and so on. I do watch fat intake now but only because I want to be more healthy. I don't know that it makes me lose any faster but time will tell. It took me 18 months to lose 180 and if I can stay on track I could lose the same within a year. So maybe it does make a difference. The jury is still out for me. I will let you all know next April. I would also allow myself 2 pieces of fruit a day without counting the calories. I was on 1600 a day at that time and now I do 1800 and count the fruit. So about the same.

I also don't think with eating 1800 calories a day you are not going to get to much of anything. Sugar that will turn into fat or just fat it's self. Unless you sit there and eat all candy for your calories for the day.

That said if you were to go over 50 calories because of having a piece of fruit I would not worry. I would still try to stay in the 1800 as much as possible but if your hungry and have to eat something I would stick with fruit or veggies. The chips are much more likely going to trigger eating more.
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