As far as fast food being expensive, you should take a look at the studies on fresh food deserts and obesity rates. I live in an urban city and the poor areas of town can't get a grocery store within walking distances or public transportation. However, they can get a fast food joint on every corner. It's not just the price of the meal. It's price of getting there and getting back when you can't.
I don't see this as a binary issue.
Absolutely spot-on.
McDonald's isn't health food, but it IS cheap food, depending on what you get--and for some families, that's a much higher priority than health. We look at a two-sandwich value meal and go "ew, that is just nasty!" Someone else might look at it and say, "Bingo--dinner for two kids for the price of a single value meal!"
Cheap, fast, or healthy--pick any two. McDonald's offers the first two. I'd like it if they had more of the third option as well, but I also realize that most of us who are on these boards (which means we have money for luxury goods like computers and internet access) see food through the wrong end of the telescope. For most of human history and for a lot of folks today, getting enough calories is more of a challenge. For some people, value meals really are a major value.
I agree that portion sizes are cah-RAZY these days. But the flip side of that is that reducing them while charging the same amount would really crush some people's budgets, both calorically and financially. It's hard to argue in favor of seeing fast food places reduce portion sizes when I know that some people need the extra value of more food for the money. When you don't have a car and the nearest supermarket is three miles away, the McDonald's across the street looks like a damned good option.
I now realize that I basically ate enough for two, maybe three people when I went to McDonald's; it wasn't really McDonald's' fault that I ordered what I now consider an entree along with my entree--although it is arguably their fault that they're calling the thing a "snack wrap" and not an "entree wrap."
crazy LOL but that's a free market economy for you -- and at least you KNOW it's that many calories. It does seem ridiculous that their somewhat healthier options of thai salads etc. are like $9 whereas you can feed your whole family for $9 if you had to.
Although I live in a University town, and Sunday mornings seeing the hungover lads scarfing down FOUR of those sandwiches at least makes me laugh a bit, as they're 6 feet tall and weigh about 80 pounds LOL
So, if we all got to design a healthy, inexpensive fast food restaurant, what would you like to see on the menu?
Here's my wish list:
If it had to be a drive-thru, then finger foods have to be on the menu. You can't eat a salad while driving. You can't properly eat a burger while driving. So a healthy, seasoned, grilled chicken strip makes sense. Maybe even salmon strips. Ground beef or lamb kibbee. Falafel. All the meats should be free-range, cage-free, grass-fed, wild-caught as appropriate.
Wraps are an option. The wraps can be made with whole grains and flax. There could be a variety of fillings to choose from.
Grilled or raw veggies, fresh fruit that's washed and cut when an order is placed. (I hate the precut veggies and fruit. They have preservative all over them and it tastes awful!) And some yogurt-based dips.
How about sweet potato oven-fries?
There should be some options for people with allergies.
Beverages served could include a varitey of iced teas, fruit juices blended with sparkling water. Smoothies.
It's all just a friggin mess. I am not vegitarian, but the grain that goes into fattening up all the cows, chicken, and fish is probably enough to sustain the people that go there looking for a value.
IMHO, fast food (for the most part) is a really slimy business that preys on the ignorance of the public.
I guess so, but how much ignorance can we really plead? I mean, the nutrition labels are right there in your face. There's a label on everything now.
Some people want to eat that way, and it's a free country. I think it's dumb, but I did it for years. I think drinking booze and smoking is dumb, but I can if I want. I don't want anyone taking the choice away from me.
Places like Chipotle in the States are making a killing with their fresh ingredients/speedy service! We don't have them in Canada yet... although a quick drive thru breakfast at tim horton's is a toasted whole wheat english muffin (no butter) and an egg on it... i can live with that! and their coffee is outstanding, bonus!
If we all ate a flavorless, but nutritious gruel of protein-fortified grains, I'm sure it would be quite sustainable too--but let's face it, people want food that tastes good. I'm not going to tell people with not a lot of money that they don't deserve to eat flavorful food because they can get by with something less.
I find it presumptuous that those of us who can afford the luxury of living in neighborhoods where grocery stores are part of the landscape judge cheaper, more accessible meals so harshly for being "unsustainable." I can pretty much guarantee that the lifestyle of someone who can't afford a car and lives in a crap-hole of an apartment over a pawn shop has an overall lower carbon footprint than our middle-class lives produce.
I've been the person living in that crap-hole apartment, and Mickey D's was one of my more affordable, accessible meal options. I'm not painting the company as a bunch of saints out to help the poor and needy, but they fill a necessary ecological niche in the modern city's food web.
We could certainly argue that McDonald's shouldn't be the most affordable, accessible meal option for people in rotten neighborhoods, but don't blame the people who eat there for eating "unsustainably." Sustainability is VERY much a wealthier person's concern.
If we can blame a McDonald's for making people overweight, where does it end?
Can I blame Walmart for having a huge Little Debbie aisle? And for selling them in boxes of 12 so cheaply? They just don't care about my health, obviously.
How about blaming the government for paying American farmers not to grow produce. Or the FDA for approving so many medications that have the side effect of weight gain? My mother should be held responsible for passing onto me the predisposition to obesity. My culture for making fattening foods a social requirement.
I'd love to be able to believe that the blame for making me fat should fall on some other person or entity. Even if I did, what purpose does it serve?
Nutrition information for fast food is no big secret. There are plenty of convenience foods that are just as fattening that we can eat out of a box or bag at home.
I look at this the same way I would any other lifestyle choices I may consider unhealthy....Tobacco and liquor stores are on every corner in the city-that is SO much worse but we aren't berating Circle K. If you are health conscious, then don't go to the drive thru. That doesn't mean we can take those choices away from other people who DO want it.
Every single business for-profit in the world bases their success on supply and demand. They make things to sell because someone, somewhere wants to buy it. Is McDonald's evil for the 2-fish deal? Am I evil for baking a batch of chocolate chip cookies?
It is everybody's individual choice whether to eat either...and more importantly, what they eat and do thereafter. A person can have an indulgence once in a while and not be adversely effected by it at all if their other choices aren't unhealthy also.
In the end, if we are angry about Mc-Whoever offering a menu choice because it is unhealthy, all we are really doing is forcing our own values onto everyone else.
Do I wish I didn't have that temptation, when I leave my street to see 6 fast food places and smell the flame broiled smoky goodness flowing out of Burger King directly into my car vents? LOL, sure. But if I don't take FULL responsibility for what I decide to put into my own body...that mentality doesn't help me or anyone else.
I do see Eliana's original point that portion sizes are just wacky these days. There's no arguing that a two-sandwich value meal is a LOT of food. I just think that we--a self-selected population of people who, for the most part, have more complicated relationships with food than those who have never struggled with weight might--see "a LOT of food" in a different light than others might.
I could easily have socked that much food away at one point. It's part of what made me fat. While I can't claim that I ate such big volumes of food unknowingly, I can say that a lot of "portion creep" has happened without my having to order more stuff from the menu. Aside from candy bars that seem to shrink every year, portions have gotten huge. People love to get a value--thus the name "value meal"--and offering them something that's 30% larger for the same price will bring customers in by the van-load.
So I see both sides here. On the one hand, I agree completely that it's the diner's responsibility to limit calories and portions. The most important thing I've done to help foster my weight loss is take complete responsibility for my eating habits. If I eat a Quarter Pounder (which I haven't since at least October 19 ), it'll have the same effect on my body whether I count it or ignore it, so I had damned well better count it and own my choices.
On the other hand, portions have slowly increased over years and decades to the point that the same order you placed at McDonald's five years ago might have an extra 200 calories' worth of fries or Coke today. That's an extra three pounds of fat a year if you eat your usual fast food meal once per week--and you haven't changed a thing. What happens if you up-size your meal on half your visits? Yikes.
Fast food places could be a little more forthcoming with nutritional info, too. It's there for the Googling, yes, but it'd be even more convenient if menus featured the calorie counts. I'm a pretty savvy eater now, but I ran afoul of a 750-calorie salad early on in my weight loss--and it wasn't even one of those ranch-laden monstrosities topped with fried chicken bits, either. It was just an abundance of calorie-dense toppings like cheese and nuts and croutons. I figured maybe 500...got home, Googled it, BAM, an extra 250 calories that I had to carve out of my dinner.
If I did this, how many other people who aren't as assiduous about reading labels and looking up calorie counts are also consuming gut-busting lunches? I'm all in favor of more accessible fast food nutritional information disclosure.
But I strongly support people's right to order whatever they choose from that nutritionally-labeled menu. Getting to pick what we eat for dinner is one of the most basic freedoms adults can exercise. Policing others' meals, no matter how well-intentioned, is a worrisome precedent to set.
But I strongly support people's right to order whatever they choose from that nutritionally-labeled menu. Getting to pick what we eat for dinner is one of the most basic freedoms adults can exercise. Policing others' meals, no matter how well-intentioned, is a worrisome precedent to set.
I have to agree... McD's is hardly the only restaurant that offers food in excessive amounts. I was in a local restaurant with hubby, he ordered a fried mushroom appetizer and it came in an ENORMOUS BASKET. It almost certainly had enough calories in it for two rather large meals if not considerably more!
Further, while a two sandwich value meal might be a lot of food to us, to a pro football player or someone who hasn't eaten all day, or someone who leads a very active lifestyle, it might be just fine. Think Michael Phelps. Maybe it's not the healthiest choice, but calorie-wise, there's always someone out there who can eat tons of calories and never gain an ounce! I'm not going to judge if they want to grab a meal like this.
However, I have the freedom NOT to grab that same meal for myself!
Nola, thank you for bringing up portion control! Yes, that was definitely my original point. I'm happy to debate all sides of the picture, but the post was actually started because of portion control issues, not because fast-food places dare offer high calorie items. I know I for one would protest should DQ ever stop selling their Blizzards! But I would applaud them for giving us a smaller size option. Miami University is known for their Toasted Rolls which is pretty much icing covered bread fried in butter and then coated with powder sugar! Yum! And it would be a shame if they had to stop selling it. Rare treats like that should be enjoyed and sometimes even guilt free. It IS up to the consumer to limit these purchases.
I just can't help thinking restaurants have a responsibility to return their portions to old standards AND lower the price too. Somewhere someone came up with the idea that "more is better" and it just isn't when it comes to food.
I agree that people should have the right to eat whatever they choose, absolutely.
I lived in a car while pregnant for over 4 months when I was 18. I ate fast food as a means of survival (I didn't have a kitchen). It took a long time for me to have the "luxury" of any other type of food besides convenient store crap or fast food. Fast food was the luxury at that time. I am not judging the people that eat it, I am judging the industry.
Rural areas are much the same as urban ones. My grandmother lives in a town with one small grocery store, and five fast food joints. Many of the people in my grandma's county don't have a car, and there is NO public transportation.
The fast food establishments sponsor elementary school functions in some of the areas near me. The health department gives kids McD's gift certificates after immunizations as a reward. It isn't right to brainwash our kids. It also isn't fair for the government to give kids conflicting information. The teachers will teach them how to eat in class, but at the end of the day - YAY! Pizza Hut Night (at school!?) It takes soooo much work for us as parents to undo the damage caused by fast food advertising.
As I said, it's a mess. And as for the eating tasteless gruel. Of course people want things that taste good. If it weren't for all the artificial "flavor enhancers" allowed into the "food" they're pushing it would taste like the crap that it is, and NO one would buy it.
I have to disagree with the posters that said McDonald's is not responsible for what people put in their mouths.
Millions of dollars spent in marketing campaigns are meant to "educate" their consumers and use psychology to change the way consumers eat at their restaurants. It's like saying the movie theater that put subliminal messages in their movie (and increased the sale of popcorn, candy and soda) is not responsible because no one force fed them. When you're subjected to advertising in this 24/7 media world, it WILL have a psychological effect. No, no one is force feeding consumers but McDonald's (and others) are not unaware of what they need to do to manipulate the public.
I think you're right that fast food restaurants aren't at all free of blame for their attempts to influence consumer habits, but individual people are still the ones making the choices.
I used to work at a Wendy's, and the people who had the smallest, healthiest (or "healthiest") meals also tended to be the thinnest and fittest. The people who got the triple baconator combos and similar items tended to be the most obese and generally unhealthy looking (the exception to this was teenage boys, who were often thin and ordered loads of junk). Fast food consumption is only a part of eating healthy; customers develop their consumption habits over time and from a variety of places. I think it ultimately comes down to health awareness and motivation on the part of consumers, neither of which fast food restaurants are responsible for providing.
From a non-American - I wonder how much of a contribution to this is what seems to me like a general cultural propensity to "bigger is better"? Fast food is popular throughout the world but I think only in America supersizing so popular? I mean just from seeing in television the huge Starbucks lattes or the enormous popcorn buckets that so many seem to have on a day to day basis...
Another pespective regarding individual and societal responsibilities. It's true of course that people are responsible to what they put in their mouths, but I think that social influence is a very real factor in how we behave. I mean, look how smoking rates have gone down since it's become so much less socially acceptable and I'm sure the same would happen if eating an entire family bag of chips, chocolate, whatever, or eating enormous supersized fast food meals became socially unacceptable as well. I guess that criticizing McDonalds and other fast food companies is actually a positive ONE step in making that cultural change. Changing school lunches and removing all vending machines from schools would be another. Limiting food commercials during children's tv programs yet another... I don't know. I read a lot about how government subsidies to soy, corn (dairy?) agricultrual industries are at the root of the obesity epidemic. Maybe, a la Marx, no real change can be made before that economic reality is changed?
From a non-American - I wonder how much of a contribution to this is what seems to me like a general cultural propensity to "bigger is better"? Fast food is popular throughout the world but I think only in America supersizing so popular? I mean just from seeing in television the huge Starbucks lattes or the enormous popcorn buckets that so many seem to have on a day to day basis...
Another pespective regarding individual and societal responsibilities. It's true of course that people are responsible to what they put in their mouths, but I think that social influence is a very real factor in how we behave. I mean, look how smoking rates have gone down since it's become so much less socially acceptable and I'm sure the same would happen if eating an entire family bag of chips, chocolate, whatever, or eating enormous supersized fast food meals became socially unacceptable as well. I guess that criticizing McDonalds and other fast food companies is actually a positive ONE step in making that cultural change. Changing school lunches and removing all vending machines from schools would be another. Limiting food commercials during children's tv programs yet another... I don't know. I read a lot about how government subsidies to soy, corn (dairy?) agricultrual industries are at the root of the obesity epidemic. Maybe, a la Marx, no real change can be made before that economic reality is changed?
I think you have a real point here! It comes down to peer pressure. And when I think about it, people often apologize to me for their eating habits now. That's a problem in and of itself and a whole different topic, but when people see me eating whole, healthy foods and they've ordered fast-food for lunch, they are apologetic or they offer up an explanation for why they are choosing to eat that way. I never feel the need to explain my food options. So maybe just having more of us "eating by example" can have an impact on our culture over time. Interesting.
I think it ultimately comes down to health awareness and motivation on the part of consumers, neither of which fast food restaurants are responsible for providing.
I disagree. Not all people have access to the same degree of information that we have, which is something a lot of people take for granted. As many people became more education about the unhealthiness of fast food, McDonald's stock price dropped. So what did they do? They began advertising to poor and uneducated ethnic minorities, or as they titled it the "urban market." This is a market that they KNEW did not have the knowledge about healthy eating, and yet they pandered to them through the $1 menu, advertisments with ethnic minority actors, and by plopping down restaurants in poor urban areas.
They have a role in the lack of health awareness. It may not be the most significant role, but they have one. To say that they are no way responsible for awareness and motivation on the part of consumers is not giving their shady ad execs enough credit (or discredit).
Yum!
I know I for one would protest should DQ ever stop selling their Blizzards! But I would applaud them for giving us a smaller size option. Miami University is known for their Toasted Rolls which is pretty much icing covered bread fried in butter and then coated with powder sugar! Yum! And it would be a shame if they had to stop selling it. Rare treats like that should be enjoyed and sometimes even guilt free. It IS up to the consumer to limit these purchases.
