So I recently blogged on spark and shared on one of the threads here, that blog, and I was talking about food addiction.
Ruby posted this on her blog in regards to food addiction and it just got me thinking about stuff:
"I hope this week's episode teaches you, like it taught me, that when you have an addiction like mine you really can't take off for the holidays. That's like giving an alcoholic a bottle just for the day or a drug addict cocaine just for the day and then expecting them not to crave more. We have to be aware of our trigger foods and realize this is the road we'll be on for the rest of our lives."
Interesting quote. I am a substance abuse counselor and work with drug and alcohol addicts full time. And food addiction just isn't the same, why? Because unlike the drug addict or alcoholic who can just STOP using their drug of choice, all of us need to learn how to use our "drug of choice" in moderation!
I have no plans whatsoever to take "time off" per se, for the holidays. However, where I have not had anything sweet or desert like since about April, I fully plan to have a piece of banana cream pie at Thanksgiving without feeling like I have relapsed.
Interesting quote. I am a substance abuse counselor and work with drug and alcohol addicts full time. And food addiction just isn't the same, why? Because unlike the drug addict or alcoholic who can just STOP using their drug of choice, all of us need to learn how to use our "drug of choice" in moderation!
I also used to think this until I realized that food addiction is rarely an addiction to ALL foods, so it actually is possible in most cases to abstain completely from "the drug of choice," as long as you identify which foods you use as drugs and which you don't. (And that's actually easy too, because the physiology of food addiction is actually well understood, we just haven't been paying attention or haven't read the books and articles that describe it well).
I also spent most of my career working in substance abuse treatment, and most of my life trying to address my food addiction. I also thought of food addiction as an addiction to all food, but in hindsight I now know I wasn't addicted to all food. My binge and trigger foods were very specific. Books that helped me realize the connection were various carb-conscious books, ancestor diet books, and two books in particluar (David Kessler's The End of Overreating, and Barbara Berkeley's Refuse to Regain!: 12 Tough Rules to Maintain the Body You've Earned)!
Yes a person has to eat food, but they do not have to eat their trigger foods
And trigger foods aren't all that difficult to identify, especially when you understand the physiological basis for the addiction.
Food addicts do not generally binge on green beans or lettuce leaves (and if they do, there's little harm done, because it's virtually impossible to eat enough green beans or lettuce leaves to impact negatively upon a person's weight).
Food addiction is usually an addiction to foods with very specific qualities and are foods that can be avoided entirely.
In David Kessler's books he talks about the research of a particularly addictive combination that is so addictive it even snares lab animals. Foods that combine sugar/salt/fat are so addictive that even rats become addicted. Add in other compelling food cues like texture and mouthfeel and you can easily identify the foods that are going to be the toughest to eat in moderation.
High carbohydrate foods, particularly those that digest the most rapidly - simple carbohydrates (sugars) and complex carbohydrates that aren't very complex (such as refined carbohydrates like bread) are also quite addictive, and the mechanisms are quite well understood (it was even featured on Dr. Oz the other day when he talked about sugars and other refined carbs stimulating the opiate receptors).
The types of food that are the most addictive, are entirely avoidable in theory. In practice, it's not as easy to avoid addictive foods, because they're the cheapest, most available, most culturally desireable, most pushed foods.
But saying the foods are difficult to avoid is very different from saying they're impossible to avoid.
And food addiction just isn't the same, why? Because unlike the drug addict or alcoholic who can just STOP using their drug of choice, all of us need to learn how to use our "drug of choice" in moderation!
Oh I highly disagree. Why can't we just stop using addictive foods, like the alcoholic or drug abuser? Why?Why does anyone need or have to learn how to use Frankenfoods in moderation? And by Frankenfoods I mean potent combinations of salt, fat and sugar that have been manufactured to actually keep the user coming back for more and more and more.
Quote:
However, where I have not had anything sweet or desert like since about April, I fully plan to have a piece of banana cream pie at Thanksgiving without feeling like I have relapsed
I really hope that works out for you. Not every one CAN do that or even needs to do that. Not everyone can stop at one piece of pie. And if they can while at the dining room table, they may then having cravings for days and days to come.
Cocaine, alcohol. heroin, and sugar are not things that are required to live a healthy, normal life. They can all be eliminated and a full, happy life can be had without ever having to partake.
Last edited by rockinrobin; 11-20-2010 at 03:19 PM.
I also used to think this until I realized that food addiction is rarely an addiction to ALL foods, so it actually is possible in most cases to abstain completely from "the drug of choice," as long as you identify which foods you use as drugs and which you don't. (And that's actually easy too, because the physiology of food addiction is actually well understood, we just haven't been paying attention or haven't read the books and articles that describe it well).
I also spent most of my career working in substance abuse treatment, and most of my life trying to address my food addiction. I also thought of food addiction as an addiction to all food, but in hindsight I now know I wasn't addicted to all food. My binge and trigger foods were very specific. Books that helped me realize the connection were various carb-conscious books, ancestor diet books, and two books in particluar (David Kessler's The End of Overreating, and Barbara Berkeley's Refuse to Regain!: 12 Tough Rules to Maintain the Body You've Earned)!
Yes a person has to eat food, but they do not have to eat their trigger foods
And trigger foods aren't all that difficult to identify, especially when you understand the physiological basis for the addiction.
Food addicts do not generally binge on green beans or lettuce leaves (and if they do, there's little harm done, because it's virtually impossible to eat enough green beans or lettuce leaves to impact negatively upon a person's weight).
Food addiction is usually an addiction to foods with very specific qualities and are foods that can be avoided entirely.
In David Kessler's books he talks about the research of a particularly addictive combination that is so addictive it even snares lab animals. Foods that combine sugar/salt/fat are so addictive that even rats become addicted. Add in other compelling food cues like texture and mouthfeel and you can easily identify the foods that are going to be the toughest to eat in moderation.
High carbohydrate foods, particularly those that digest the most rapidly - simple carbohydrates (sugars) and complex carbohydrates that aren't very complex (such as refined carbohydrates like bread) are also quite addictive, and the mechanisms are quite well understood (it was even featured on Dr. Oz the other day when he talked about sugars and other refined carbs stimulating the opiate receptors).
The types of food that are the most addictive, are entirely avoidable in theory. In practice, it's not as easy to avoid addictive foods, because they're the cheapest, most available, most culturally desireable, most pushed foods.
But saying the foods are difficult to avoid is very different from saying they're impossible to avoid.
Never even occurred to me, thanks for the book recs and I will be sure to google these concepts.
at the same time, all or nothing thinking has caused me to binge too. I start to obsess, I can't have X, I can NEVER have X, then eating X becomes this big focus, will I give in? will I not give in? and then I do, and wham bang, it's not having half a doughnut, or a piece of chocolate, or a scoop of ice cream, it's big amounts, finishing the box; pint; whatever.
I get that certain foods are more physically addictive; I do think there's a huge part of the equation that involves taking the power out of the food. I'm not talking about will power. more like deflating the monster, so eating the X or not eating the X stops being an important argument in my brain, and I'm free to make healthier choices without feeling deprived or like I'm white knuckling it.
at the same time, all or nothing thinking has caused me to binge too. I start to obsess, I can't have X, I can NEVER have X, then eating X becomes this big focus, will I give in? will I not give in? and then I do, and wham bang, it's not having half a doughnut, or a piece of chocolate, or a scoop of ice cream, it's big amounts, finishing the box; pint; whatever.
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For me it's the opposite. Once I made these foods definite no's, after a few difficult weeks, they became non-issues to me. The longer and longer I went without them, the less and less I wanted them.
But I took the equation away, where as it seems as if you may not have. Will I give in/won't I give in? no longer had to be asked. It wasn't an option TO give in. Perhaps that's what was different for me and the others who successfully banned it. And once you do give in - there you have it - wham - bang - it's not in a moderate portion... because these things are next to impossible to have in moderation portions for the *addict*.
Hi all,
very interesting posts and thread thank-you. I also am an alcohol and drug counselor. It seems we are coming out of the wood work today. Thanks for the list of books Kaplod. I'll have to see if I can find them on Amazon. I have been sugar-free for over a month now and trying to follow the "belly fat cure eating plan" which is semi-low carb. I have found that allowable foods like cheezits make we want to eat the whole box and cause craving and discomfort for a few days after I eat them. I have also noticed that using truvia on oatmeat or in unsweetened chocolate almond milk. Which is supposed to be ok, makes me crave and feel a kind of agitation for a couple of days. One day I had peanut butter cups in my group room and they made me feel like I wanted to explode even though I didn't have any... "talk about preoccupation". I made the group members take the left overs with them to give their kids. I am worried about Thanksgiving as I know that even artificially sweetened cranberrries, sweet potatoes and pie will most likely make me want more and probably not just that day. I know that I will probably over eat on the carbs even though I plan to have small portions and to serve some baked sweet potatoes plain. I'm planning to skip the mashed potatoes so I can have a little stuffing. Thanks again for the posts they helped clarify some of my thinking. I do not plan on having any sugar as I know it will be really bad for me. I may also stay away from artificially sweeted things.
I think that one big difference between food and drug addictions is that while we can live without sugars, junk food, etc, in the same way that we can live without cocaine, etc, there is the question of access.
You go to a grocery store, and all kinds of "food" is available to you. Most stores are set up so that tempting bakery is right near the door. While you generally have to go out of your way to get drugs (nicotine and alcohol are different, of course), non-food (junk food) is thrown in your face at every turn. Billboards, at the store, ads on TV, on the radio, and on the Internet constantly remind you of how the food "drug" is so easy to access that it's impossible not to come across it in your quest to purchase truly nourishing foods.
And every time I walk past that bakery space in the front of the store, and the candy and chips aisles in the middle, I do feel a sense of victory that I'm overcoming a powerful psychological urge.
Paris81 - you make a good point. Access and advertising.
It is pervasive. I can't get a loaf of WW bread without walking past Little Debbie, et.al. I can't get frozen veggies without walking past the Sara Lee and Ben & Jerry stuff. I can't get spray marg without walking past the bacon, cookie dough, chip dip, etc. I can't get Kashi cereal with walking past the cookies, frosting, cake mixes, sugar, flour. The liquor is in ONE aisle only. It gets roped off on Sundays. The cigarettes are in a locked case at the front. The spray paint is locked up at the hardware store. You have to sign a form and show ID for a certain 'class' of prescription drugs. Recently the FDA took Darvocet off the market because it could cause heart problems. Yeah, well so does cr@p food but they don't make Debbie or Sara or Ben take their products off the shelves.
So yeah, I think it is harder to moderate food choices because crap is EVERYWHERE and it is intentional!! But we do it and we are stronger for it.
If I ruled the world, I would make cr@p food a separate department like the Rx counter, liquor aisle or cigarette case. Can you imagine having to asked for a dozen donuts from the check out clerk and they have to get the key and open the donut case??? Or you have to show ID?
I remember when they outlawed cigarette ads from TV. I wish, wish, wish they would outlaw cr@p food ads from TV. Or relagate them to "paid advertising stations".
the longer I go without certain foods, like potato chips, the less I crave them too. that seems to me to be the physical aspect of the addiction.
now I can eat the stuff in moderate proportions. of course, with weight loss I have to keep the activity up to a certain point, and the calories down to a certain point. (there's the rub!) that means eating high calorie foods in moderation can be enough to slow weight loss (esp for someone like myself who's been large and sedentary for a large part of my life)
I understand the idea of banning certain foods that hinder being thinner, and weight loss. and I do keep certain foods out of the house for that very reason (and it doesn't bother me) -- potato chips, ice cream. I'm getting to a better place, where it's easier to eat fewer calories. I enjoy eating healthily. and I enjoy exercise. I also understand for my health I'd like to lose weight.
At this point I feel like I have the healthiest attitude towards eating and food than I've ever had in my life.
If I ruled the world, I would make cr@p food a separate department like the Rx counter, liquor aisle or cigarette case. Can you imagine having to asked for a dozen donuts from the check out clerk and they have to get the key and open the donut case??? Or you have to show ID?
this made me think of the days when XXX movies were in a separate room behind a curtain, ha. food porn!
There are a lot of differences. There's no doubt that cocaine would be an enitrely different problem, if it held the same place as highly addictive foods do in our culture. Pushed on you at every turn, even by your grandmother. Present in the grade schools and work vending machines. Advertised on television, magazines, billboards, and highway exit sign. Sold by girlscouts and church group fundraisers, a part of every social gathering from a baby shower to a funeral.
Ruby (the show) and food addiction quote
