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Old 06-15-2009, 03:48 PM   #1  
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Default OT - Is this fraud?

My ex owns a bar. When the bar is running low on funds, he hosts a charity event and keeps the money to pay the bills. For example, he once had a "charity" bartender auction where he auctioned off a date with each bartender. The bartender got to choose her favorite charity and the money for the date was supposed to go to that charity. The reality is he kept all the money for himself. I never liked this and we agued over it. ALOT! But when push came to shove, I just kept my nose out of it. I shouldn't have, but we were living together and I thought I loved him. Now he's doing it again, this time hosting a fundraiser for Breast Cancer. I know that money will never be donated. Is this fraud? Who do I report it to?

Thanks

Last edited by seashell; 06-15-2009 at 03:49 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:53 PM   #2  
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I do believe it is fraud, but I have no idea who to report it to. I would imagine that there is some tax liability in it - when a person donates to a cause it is often tax deductible, 'donating' to a bar isn't. Better Business Bureau? Take an ad in the paper? Call the police? He is basically stealing money from the people who donate under false pretenses.

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Old 06-15-2009, 04:02 PM   #3  
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I would start out with the BBB. Not sure what the police can do without proof, but you should be able to speak to someone at the BBB and they will tell you what to do next or who to speak to if they are not the right place.

That really upsets me that he is doing that. It is a horrible thing to do!
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:06 PM   #4  
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You would report it to the police and/or IRS (I'm betting he didn't declare the income). However, if I were you, I would talk to a lawyer before reporting him, to find out whether you could be held liable in any way for the prior incidents which you never reported.

If he's your ex-husband you would have some protection, but if he's your ex-boyfriend, you could be charged as an accessory, or accessory after the fact. It's possible that he will say it was "all your idea," should you testify (and you probably would have to).

I'm by no means saying that you shouldn't report it, but you should talk to a lawyer first about the best way to do so.

Last edited by kaplods; 06-15-2009 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:41 PM   #5  
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Absolutely it's fraud.

Kaplods gives you good advice.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:36 PM   #6  
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Wow. That's one of the most despicible, horrible things I've ever heard.

I would start with a call to the district attorney's office in your city or county. You can choose to remain anonymous.

Good for you for doing the right thing!
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:51 PM   #7  
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a bartender date auction is one thing, but breast cancer?? a REAL charity, wow that's low. Absolutely it's fraud. All someone has to do is ask him "what's your charity registration number" or ask for a receipt, and he's cooked!
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:03 PM   #8  
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Whenever the pub that I work at has a charity 'do', we have to put up a certificate from the chosen charity with the amount of money raised so the customers have 'proof' of where the money went. I'm surprised your ex has never had to do that.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:10 PM   #9  
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There was a story a few years ago about a woman who faked cancer and her employers and the community did a bunch of fundraising for her. Like tens of thousands. She did jail time and had to pay restitution.

It's BIG time fraud!
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:19 PM   #10  
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Definitely Fraud!
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:30 PM   #11  
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Fraud, but how much drama do you want to get dragged into? You don't know for sure that he's not donating it now. I would let it go, and figure that the karma gods or the IRS will catch up to him. I'd just put my energy towards myself.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:10 PM   #12  
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Even knowing about it is energy draining.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:19 PM   #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennelle View Post
Wow. That's one of the most despicible, horrible things I've ever heard.

I would start with a call to the district attorney's office in your city or county. You can choose to remain anonymous.

Good for you for doing the right thing!

I'd still call the lawyer first. The district attorney is not likely going to do anything with an anonymous tip of this nature. And if they do look into it, they're likely to suspect you personally as the informant after only a bit of interviewing (you think he's not going to say when questioned that you're a ticked ex whose just trying to make trouble - and that's what it will look like). If they do pursue the matter, it's very likely that you're going to be questioned and required to testify - they can't do anything without evidence and proof - at most right now they can get him for failing to fill out the required city permits and paperwork.

There's no way you can do this without a great deal of trouble to yourself - and the first question that's going to be asked is "why now and not then." If you benefited at all from the incidents (he bought you stuff or you were living with him and therefore benefited, even if indirectly from the income), you could be held legally responsible for the part you played in it. Is your conscience hurting enough to pursue this, knowing that it can turn on you.
Can you answer "why not then" in a way that doesn't make you look like someone willing to overlook bad behavior when there was something in it for you. That's why I think you need an attorney.

The thing is though, you can't NOT report him either, without perhaps facing legal consequences when someone else does. Even going in and telling everything you know, could put you in almost as trouble as he is - which is why you need to talk to a defense attorney who can tell you what you need to do (or not do).

Even if you decide not to report him, I wouldn't just hope no one looks at you when he's eventually caught. You need to talk to an attorney to find out what if anything you could be "on the hook for." It might be in your best interest TO report him before someone else does, because it's possible that when he's caught he may try to drag as many people down with him as possible. Or the DA's office may wish to prosecute as many people as possible, including anyone who was directly, or indirectly involved (which still points to you).

Find out now what your legal liability is in these cases. If you are liable in any way, you may be in a position in which anyone but you reporting it could put you at a disadvantage. That is, if the DA needs your testimony to convict, they might cut a deal with you for your testimony - while if they have other witnesses/evidence they may not need your testimony and could be as likely to prosecute you.

Because it sounds like you may have some legal liability in this, just by knowing of it and not reporting it, I'd talk to that lawyer NOW so that you know what you could be in for. This isn't something you can just wish didn't happen - you need to find out whether you've committed a crime and what the possible sentences are - you need to get a defense attorney's advice on whether and how to proceed. In your place, I would worry about what would happen if someone else reports the incidents and you are implicated in the crimes.

Last edited by kaplods; 06-16-2009 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:43 PM   #14  
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I'd say report it to the IRS. I doubt he reported it as income.

There is a form online you can complete, or they give you an address you can send a letter to. Here's the site: http://www.irs.gov/individuals/artic...106778,00.html They also state: "Although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential."
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:31 PM   #15  
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This goes way beyond the IRS and karma folks. Depending on the money involved and the fact that he's done it multiple times, there are potentially many FELONY counts of fraud that have been committed. Federal felonies if he used the US Mail at all to further his scam.

Here is a brochure on charity fraud from the National Crime Prevention Council: http://www.ncpc.org/resources/files/...d-Brochure.pdf

An excerpt:

How To Report Charity Fraud

It is a federal felony for anyone to engage in mail fraud,
wire fraud, or credit-card fraud. Charity-related fraud
should be reported to the following authorities:

• Local law enforcement agency

• Local postmaster if fraudulent solicitations or invoices
arrive by mail

• State Attorney General’s office:

• State charity office: www.nasconet.org

• Federal Trade Commission, online complaint
form: www.ftc.gov

• Local Better Business Bureau, online complaint
form: www.bbb.org

• BBB Wise Giving Alliance, online complaint
form: www.give.org

• The Internet Crime Complaint Center, online
complaint form: www.ic3.gov

• The National Fraud Information Center, online
complaint form: www.fraud.org

Kaplods is right. You need a lawyer. And then you need to report this.
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