I totally agree with xxxine. It is a really sensitive topic/issue. I think that there has to be compromise from either position-- in terms of being fair for larger sizes and fair for average sizes.
I'm an average size (striving to lose some). I used to have a job where I traveled extensively, at least twice a month. I remember one time sitting next to a large man. I felt so badly for him. He was clearly aware that he was in my area. He even admited to me that he was glad he was next to a woman-- but, I might stress-- like I said, I am average sized-- not petite by any means. And it was a long flight. I felt badly for him because he obviously was sitting so still to not disburb me, or get hit by the dang cart that goes careening down the aisle. He was nice about it, and I think he was embarrased, which made me feel badly for him.
I think that if he was a jerk about it, I would have been pretty annoyed.
Its such a sensitive topic. I think a tall/large aisle in coach would be ideal. Its not just larger weight people who have an issue-- very tall folks have a problem with the sizing of the aisle and seats too.
Last edited by clibrarian; 06-11-2008 at 11:57 AM.
I'm 6'1" (tall) and 255 lbs (large)... we just went on Jet Blue and I have to say I was pretty pleased at the size of their seats! They sell "extra legroom" seats (the emergency row, how crazy is that?) for more money, but our normal seats were SHOCKINGLY roomy. Hubby is large too (6'4" and 280) and he was comfortable as well.
We sat in a 2 seater row on the way out and were comfortable. The way in we were in a 3 seater row, hubby in window me in the b*tch seat... (middle)... and I had this small older lady next to me. I don't pour over the seats, but I was EXTREMELY conscious the whole time of not creeping into her space. Kept my arms in front of me, away from the elbow rests--- Yet there she is, with her elbows on the arm rests! So I guess she didn't mind me there otherwise she would have leaned to the aisle and kept her arms off the rests.
Maybe I'm not as big as I think I am. But we LOVED jetblue.
But I agree--- even though I am a big woman, I wouldn't want to sit next to a huge person that was taking up MY space. I paid full price, I should get my full space. It isn't fair and I CAN understand how very large people should be required to buy two seats. I'm saying VERY large. I'm BIG and still didn't need to buy two seats by any stretch.
Last edited by BrandNewJen; 06-11-2008 at 12:06 PM.
about the checked baggage -- I recently came back from two business trips where my connection was too tight to check baggage so I stuck everything in a carry on.
I can understand some of the restrictions on checked bags (not the charging for one checked bag) but 2? Have you seen some of the supersized suitcases people are lugging around? I was only on a 2.5 hour flight.. but the baggage the majority of people were claiming could have fit ME in it!
Quote PhotoChick:
But seriously ... as someone else said ... the airlines are not there to be "FAIR" ... no one is ENTITLED to fly anywhere. The airlines are there to make money and satisfy their shareholders. If that means cutting back on amenities, trying to fit as many people into a flight as they can, etc., they can do so. Obviously if they cut back too far or make changes that are unsatisfactory to the majority of their customers, they'll lose business. They have to decide at what point that balances out.
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This has actually been my main point throughout. All businesses, no matter how small have a right to make whatever decisions they wish to regarding which products and services they sell, how they treat their customers, who they decide their customers are and how they will determine their costs and charges. Just as customers get to decide whether the products and services offered are of satisfactory quality and price.
As a person who sells craft and artwork, I'm well aware of people who don't feel my efforts are worth the prices I charge, regardless of the cost of materials that go into them. In the gallery I sell in, I'm on the lower end of the pricing scale. My material costs are higher than average, but my prices are lower. Law of suppply and demand dictates my maximum price. I could charge more, and sell less or I could charge less and sell more, or I could switch to a cheaper medium. I participated in an art show a couple weeks ago, and I couldn't argue with any of the guests who complained that my work was stupid and not worth the money because they could do it themselves at home cheaper. Very possibly, and it was a valid opinion (though one I didn't share or I wouldn't have been there). However, I have been on the other end of that perspective. I'm generally not going to tell a craftsperson that I believe they overprice their work, however I have turned over a price tag and been so shocked that I laughed or gasped.
To a degree, my posts have been "snarky" because we've been discussing an extremely fictional situation, and my responses have been in that vein. This thread has been an exercise in satire, no one really believes that the airlines are going to install a displacement tank to charge by volume. No one believes that airlines will create microseating in which the average person would have to buy two seats and larger patrons might need four or five. Instead, my comments have been geared at all of society, where businesses sometimes do make decisions that seem bizarre and "unfair" to prospective customers. Where quality workmanship is often a dying ideal. Where deceptive practices are common - I find it incredibly humourous and sad as well that in order to keep the perceived value consistent in the consumer's mind, some companies decrease their product size/weight while keeping the packaging the same size or even increasing it. So there's stick deodorant that has only an inch of deodorant, though there's room in container for four or five. Giant boxes or bags of crackers or rice mix or whatever are opened to a container that is less than half full (and a note on the side that declares that the product is packaged by weight, not volume and may have "settled" during shipment, implying that the package was at one time full, when that would have been impossible by the laws of physics).
A customer's perception of a product or service being NOT worth the price, is no more valid or invalid than a business person feeling the product or service is a bargain at twice the price.
To be serious for a second, no airline is ever going to charge people by the pound, or the square inch no matter how much sense it would make, unless most of their customer base can be expected to agree without taking offense. Since I don't see that happening, it's sure alot of fun to make fun of.
I was surprised to learn that airlines are charging for snacks, pillows, blankets, etc. because they were included amenities when I last flew. I found it very funny. Not that it isn't perfectly reasonable, but I still find it very funny. I find it very reasonable for someone my size to buy two seats, but I can also understand someone feeling that "I'm not too big, the seat is too small." Who's to say I am right and they are wrong. Instead, I think we're both right - we both have an opinion regarding what services we should expect, when and how loudly we should complain, and whether we're willing to patronize that business.
My husband and I visited a restaurant the other day with his grandparents, and the tables were very comfortable. Padded, armless sturdy chairs, but I actually did a double take at their booths, because it at least appeared as though even a very slender adult would have to be a contortionist to fit into the booths. I looked around the restaurant to see who was sitting in the booths, and it was darned few. Mostly singles and couples sitting on one side of the booth, with the booth pushed towards the other end (so a couple with kids probably could use the booth if they pushed the booth closer to the kids' side). That restaurant has every right to set up their booths that way, but if they had chosen fewer booths more comfortably placed, they would actually increase the serving capacity of their restaurant, which obviously was their original intent. But cramming too many booths into too small a space actually decreased, rather than increased capacity. Poor planning on their part, in my opinion. But my opinion doesn't really matter to them, does it? And it really shouldn't, except that it does matter when the opinions accumulate.
Personally, I do think that businesses tend to overlook the spending power of overweight americans, but that's my admittedly biased opinion. But the thing is, everyone's opinion is biased, and that doesn't make one "true" and another "false." The law of supply and demand is one of battling opinions trying to meet in the middle.
I've been meaning to ask you why there is always an extra period way down at the end of your posts, above your sig line...
Hahah. Cause I hate to see my post all scrunched up against my sig line. I don't know why it bothers me so much ... but it does. But if you just put spaces in there, the board software takes them out. So I stick a period in there to hold the space open.
I think when you pay for a pillow and blanket now, you get to keep them. So...hurray for a lovely airline souvenir?
My first thought was, "That would be like wanting to keep your blankie and pillow if you stayed a night in jail. Unpleasant memories. No thanks."
But, if I have to pay for it, then I am keeping it! Maybe I'll drop them off to the first homless guy I see, since I don't think I would care to keep them.
Right now it's just automatic to hit <enter><enter> and . ... and send.
If I wanted to make it white I'd have to then select it, click on the color, etc., etc.
Does the period really bother people *that* much that I should add 2 or so extra keystrokes/mouse clicks to end each post?
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It is a little weird looking and I kinda wondered myself what the period was for. But hey, the desire to leave a tidy white space is your admitted personal obsession. I just thought you wouldn't want a period mucking up your pretty, clear real estate between the post and the sig.
a) If they are not going to let me bring shampoo in my carryon, they better not DREAM of charging me for the bag I have to put under the plane.
b) If they are going to charge me more for being fat, that is fine, I will pay a little more, but then you better bump me up to 'first class' where I am actually comfortable. That is what they would have to do. Skinnies in coach, everyone else in the 8-12 normal sized comfortable seats in the front of the plane, if I am paying more.
c) Yes, they charge for snacks, but they are full of fat, hydrogenated oil & HFCS. Not something you would want to eat anyway. I always pack my own. Pretzels, dry cereal, a sammich, carrot sticks, almonds or homemade trail mix, a piece of really good chocolate, mandarin oranges, cheese & crackers, the possibilities are endless. Just don't pack peanut butter sammiches (the pb is considered a gel), yogurt, pudding, or your own liquids. Bring an empty water bottle so you can fill it up once you get past security at the bubbler. Having to buy water at the airport is ludicrous.
d) Bring your own blanket & pillow. When is the last time you think they washed those blankets they have? Do you know what people do under those blankets? No way, man. Not this girl. I have my own blanket specifically to go on the plane with me. It matches my carryon. It gets washed 7-10 days before a flight.
e) If they are going to charge fat people more, then I have a few other suggestions:
1) Charging more for the who kicks my seat. I have kidney disease. Stop kicking the seat or I will recline it into your lap & you can peel grapes & feed them to me since I will be so close to you.
2) Charging more for bad hygiene. I travel to Mayo Clinic 4x a year for said kidneys. It's one of the most famous clinics in the WORLD. This means lots & lots of people from other countries. In the little puddle jumper we take to get from MPLS to Rochester, there is ALWAYS someone carrying on a conversation in another language. Always. And there is always at least one person on that plane who believes toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo, soap & a towel were not meant for them, or were merely a suggestion. These people should all have to ride in the same plane someday & have to sit next to each other. And it's not just people from other countries either. I've had to sit next to just as many sweaty stinky American guys. They make deodorants in clinical strengths now, take advantage of it already!!!
Surprisingly I have no complaints about kids. Most of them are good, their parents keep them occupied. There was one who spent the first half of the flight kicking my seat, then the mother asks can I shut my window so Bunky can sleep w/o sun in his/her eyes. I said, sorry, I can't. I might have been able to do it w/o the seat kicking. (also I get the window seat so I can, oh, I don't know, look out the window?) But even that was understandable on a flight to Orlando where all the kids care about is seeing Mickey. Even the flight attendants were asking them, "Are you going to see Mickey?" In cases such as this, why not wait til you get off the plane to tell them where they are going? Otherwise the plane ride is hellacious for someone so little; I understood why the kid was bored/anxious/whatever, but it still doesn't excuse the crappy parenting skills that allowed the chair kicking to continue after the first kick. I do want to mention this was one kid in 13 years of flying.
Wow, that was kind of a tangent. Interesting topic, but I think if they did it, it would only open a big can of worms.
A related question--remember those samples they give out or send out of shampoo & conditioner? They are pouches that you have to tear open. They had them of bodywash & lotion, too. Why doesn't one of the major companies (Unilever, Helene Curtis, Proctor & Gamble, etc) start marketing that as the travel sizes? You could buy a box of them (say there are 5-10 packets of shampoo/conditioner in a box) for a trip and shove as many as you need for the trip into your carryon instead of having to bring the bulky bottles. Same with bodywash & lotion. I am shocked no one has thought of this yet. You can do it yourself with snack size Ziploc bags, but there is a pretty good chance of them coming open. At least with a pouch it wouldn't open until you ripped the corner off. Maybe I will call P&G tomorrow & tell them my idea. I would buy a box of shampoo/conditioner packets if it meant I wouldn't have to pay to check a bag under the plane.
Last edited by SuchAPrettyFace; 06-12-2008 at 03:09 AM.
Reason: clarity
But we LOVED jetblue.
who kicks my seat. I have kidney disease. Stop kicking the 